JTR Captivator 1000 vs CraigSUB VS-18.1

[andrewc]

Has anyone heard the difference between these 2 subs. Similar in design in that they are both ported and have 18" drivers. The Captivator appears to have a slightly smaller cabinet (10 inches shorter). There is quite a price difference....$800.00, when you add the SA1000 to the VS-18.1. Don't know if the driver in the Cap is more inefficient and would be underpowered with a 1000W amp. The "regular" Captivator is powered by the 2400W amp....I think the drivers are the same between the Cap and Cap1000.

I would love to buy the VS-18.1, however, it is too tall for where I need it. The Captivator would fit.

Mike

[craigsub]

Mike - Here are some results from the GTG last October in which a pair of VS-18.1's and a Dayton amp were compared to dual Captivators (the "big" Captivator, not the light).

This is a big thread, but the link will take you to the basic results.

https://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3975&page=12

We decided to make the VS-18.1 big for higher efficiency - a pair can be run from a single Dayton.

Hope this helps!

[TheBriman]

Don't know if the driver in the Cap is more inefficient and would be underpowered with a 1000W amp. The "regular" Captivator is powered by the 2400W amp....I think the drivers are the same between the Cap and Cap1000.
Mike

I do believe the cap1000 uses a different driver than the standard cap. Just glancing over the specs for each shows a lower xmax on the cap1000. Pricing for each as a passive unit is different as well.

[andrewc]

That was a good read....sounds like there may have been amp issues with the Inuke.

I already have a Dayton SA1000. I am using it to power an outdoor subwoofer on my deck (sealed/dual 12's wired at 4 ohms). Amp does clip occasionally. I would feel better running each of the VS-18.1 with their own SA1000......too much?

We decided to make the VS-18.1 big for higher efficiency - a pair can be run from a single Dayton.

That's what I figured....I was surprised you decided to use the LMS-5400....I have had bad luck with that driver.....seems to be rather inefficient and need gobs of power. I am sure you will get it to sound great....I take a less scientific approach to building subs (to say the least). I have had great success with the Eminence drivers!

I have to find a way to get the VS-18.1's to fit....WAF:fingerscrossed: These will be going in a room that currently has VTF-3's....and it sounds great....can only imagine the difference.

[diamonddelts]

The Cap and Cap 1000 do not use the same driver. I personally believe the cap 1000 is overpriced. Its a lower performing model of the passive Captivator. You will be paying more for plug and play convenience only. You can get two VS 18.1's for roughly the price of one Cap 1000. They will be in the same ballpark spl wise but the two VS 18.1's will have a much smoother response.

Sounds like you already have a Dayton SA 1000 amp so you will not need to shell out any additional money at this time. You can always purchase another Dayton down the road. If I were you I'd go with two VS 18.1's.

[andrewc]

The only reason I am considering the Cap is the size. Where the subs need to go is limited....still thinking.

Is the driver in the VS-18.1 configurable for a 4 ohm load? If people are running (2) VS-18.1's from a single SA1000 are they both at 8 ohms and running in parallel? The SA1000 is rated 900+ at 4oms. :confused:

[andrewc]

The only reason I am considering the Cap is the size. Where the subs need to go is limited.....Going behind a chair and 40" would be a tad obvious to a significant other that thinks this is stupid!...still thinking.

Is the driver in the VS-18.1 configurable for a 4 or 8 ohm load? If people are running (2) VS-18.1's from a single SA1000 are they both at 8 ohms and running in parallel? I would hope a single VS-18.1 is at 4 ohms...the SA1000 is rated 900+only at 4ohms. :confused:

[jdskycaster]

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but configurability is not required with the Dayton amp and the VS18.1's. A single VS18.1 at 8 ohm means the amp output is somewhere around 400W. Running dual VS18.1's places a 4 ohm load at the output of the Dayton and the SA1000 is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 800W into 4 ohms so all is well.

I know I love my duals:D

[boober]

I'm loving my duals as well. :woo:

I've always been confused about how the Dayton handles duals also.

I've also wondered if there might be an advantage to running a single VS18.1 per amp as opposed to having both VS18.1's hooked up to a single amp.

Every once in awhile I stumble upon a used Dayton SA1000 for a great price, and think I should buy it, but I don't know if it'd be worth it at all to use 2 amps as opposed to just 1. :confused:

I'm also eagerly waiting to hear more news on this ever elusive Sub1 amp that Craig's mentioned a few times. As it sounds like that would be a much better amp to use with the VS18.1's over the Dayton.

Personally I'm just trying to get more out of my dual setup. :D

[dguarnaccia]

I think the one advantage of having 2 amps is that you can EQ them independently if you have Audessy XT32 and SubEQ. Not sure there is any power advantage.

[boober]

I think the one advantage of having 2 amps is that you can EQ them independently if you have Audessy XT32 and SubEQ. Not sure there is any power advantage.

Thanks Don.

That's what I had suspected but wasn't sure.

Ever since I got my new Onkyo 818 AVR with MultiEQXT32, I'm just in awe at how much better my subs sound. For me MultiEQXT32 has made a huge difference not just in my speakers, but in my subs as well. In fact I don't use the EQ on the Dayton anymore, which I had been using, it sounds so perfect.

[andrewc]

I am pretty sure you can order the passive Cap in a 4 or 8 ohm configuration. If the 18.1's are only available at 8 ohms, then they will be getting about 400W from a Dayton amp. The Dayton amp has 2 sets of binding posts...those posts are wired to the same output internally. If you hook "2" VS-18.1's to "one" Dayton....the Dayton will see a parallel load...now 4ohms and divide it's 900W between the 2 speakers. No advantage in power running "1" SA1000/sub. I was hoping we could order the VS-18.1 in a 4 ohm configuration which would allow a single Dayton to power a single VS-18.1 at 900W.....more headroom! Too bad the Dayton is not stable into 2ohms....but we may run into dampening problems as we go down in ohms. This makes me crave the SP1 by Speaker Power.... 4000W/2, 2400W/4, 1300W/8
http://www.speakerpower.net/index.html:woo:

I'm sure Craig will chime in hear....and I think he will say something along the lines of:
The driver achieves max excursion at around 400W and any more wattage is just translated into heat at the voice coil making bad thing happen....
...................
I just hate seeing that red clip light flicker on my SA1000...pisses me off for some strange reason?
Mike

[Mktheater]

You guys are looking at it wrong. Here is what matters keeping everything else equal(linear response etc..)

Cap driver-30 mm x-max
Cap 1000-19 mm x-max
VS 18.1-19 mm x-max

Assuming all these are correct where do you see an output advantage with the Cap 1000 vs CHT? Having more power does not matter because it takes 500 watts to get the CHT to x-max within it's enclosure and the Cap 1000 takes 1000 watts to get to x-max within it's enclosure. It could be off a bit but not enough to make a big difference in audibility. The Cap 1000 is smaller and cost more. The Cap has more output than both but not enough to overcome duals of either. Now if the drivers act much differently at x-max then it can sway things as well, like how much THD there is when approaching their limits. You can not compare sealed vs ported because the ported adds 6-10 dBs around tune so dual cs 18.1's won't compare to dual Cap1000's in output around tune so during a movie this will be noticed. Gorilla mentioned the tremendous output difference between his Caps and CS 18.1's, well, you have two 18's with 30 mm of x-max with a boost at and around tune of 6-10 dBs compared to two 19 mm x-max drivers not boosted with a port, the results should be obvious. I mean a Cap with have more output around tune than a CS 18.2 due to the port. I would like to see a comparison of a sealed cap vs a 18.2, 30 mm of x-max vs two 19mm of x-max which I bet would be a much closer comparison and more fair even though not in price. I have owned CS 18.2's and Cap1000's. It cost me $3000 for the Cap1000's and $3700 for the CHT system I had. To me the difference was obvious as a system but as singles I did not get to test them enough. The finish I had on my 18.2's were better than the Cap1000's but the small size of the Cap or Cap1000's were amazing for a ported 18.

[tesseract]

I already have a Dayton SA1000. I am using it to power an outdoor subwoofer on my deck (sealed/dual 12's wired at 4 ohms). Amp does clip occasionally. I would feel better running each of the VS-18.1 with their own SA1000......too much?

Hello, Mike.

A sealed subwoofer depends on room gain and EQ to boost the low end. You can dump all the power in the world into those sealed subs, it ain't gonna work in that application. Take a look at the PA subs bands use in large rooms or outdoors, they are ported. The ports boost the low end independent (for the most part) of the environment they are placed in. Try a ported sub or two on your deck, instead.

I just hate seeing that red clip light flicker on my SA1000...pisses me off for some strange reason?
Mike

Yes, you are asking it to boost subs that are made for small rooms and dependent on the room gain to give the bass heft you are looking for. It's not happening, so you keep cranking it up! How far do you have the gain setting on the SA 1000?

The light isn't a clip light, per se. You cannot clip the SA 1000, it has protection circuitry to prevent that. The light is a half power indicator that indicates you have roughly 3 dB of headroom left in the tank. It is ok to see it flicker occasionally.

I have heard both the Captivator and the VS-18.1, duals in both instances and the Caps in two different rooms. Both are monster subs and you cannot go wrong, here. Two passive VS-18.1's are going to out run a single Cap, cost about the same, plus offer the room smoothing two subs can provide. You already have the amp, and the SA 1000 will drive one or two VS subs right up near their limits. Sure, the VS subs will take more power, but the net acoustical gain will be minimal, a couple of dB at the most.

[andrewc]

Thanks guys....sounds like the VS-18.1's are the ticket.....just got to make them fit! Very interesting on the clip light....I feel better now. I thought the amp was clipping when the light started to flicker. Now that I think about it....I could still get it louder with the light on steady with no tell tale "sounds" from the driver. :applause: