FP14k Clone Amp

[HuskerOmaha]

I ordered a FP14k clone amp from Sanway (China). They seem to be faithful copies of the original Lab Gruppen amplifiers, other than not having a network interface, and them not being able to source the transistors necessary to carry a 2 ohm load. 2.6-2.8 load and up seem to work fine from those on avsforum posting their thoughts.

I was nervous paying by Western Union, but thought I'd take the risk since many on avsforum already had.

I got the amp in yesterday. It was boxed well.

I have nothing to hook up to it yet, so it just looks nice in its box. :)

Hopefully I'll have more to add later.

Mktheater has the 10000Q (4 channel x 2100 W), the 14k is 4400W x 2 channel (if I'm remembering these correctly).

EDIT: The last picture should be the 2nd in the series, but you get the idea. Double boxed, Super taped after customs, Outside shipping box in addition to double box, and a fitted corrugated cardboard inserts and heavy mil plastic wrapped amp.

[edoggrc51]

Looking good brotha!

Have you decided on what this beast will be powering yet??

[sbdman]

I have a lot of Star Wars quotes floating in my mind about you. Hopefully none of your experiences will end up in the dark side!

[Gorilla83]

Cool! The Clone amps seem to provide some serious value in terms of watts/dollar. Can't wait to hear your impressions once you get to listening. :)

What are you using for power supply behind it? I'd assume it would require at least a 20A line, assuming a 110V connection. What type of cord does it have? :applause:
How long did it take to arrive?

It would be cool to have a source to buy these in the US (hint hint Craig!). I'd imagine they would become wildly popular if one could obtain one with some type of warranty/manufacturer support and the ability to use a credit card. :woo: Of course in such a case I wouldn't expect the cost to stay the same as the importer/distributor would be assuming alot of the risk.

[Archaea]

Cool! The Clone amps seem to provide some serious value in terms of watts/dollar. Can't wait to hear your impressions once you get to listening. :)

It would be cool to have a source to buy these in the US (hint hint Craig!). I'd imagine they would become wildly popular if one could obtain one with some type of warranty/manufacturer support and the ability to use a credit card. :woo: Of course in such a case I wouldn't expect the cost to stay the same as the importer/distributor would be assuming alot of the risk.

He'd be crazy to do so IMO. As a small company you try to sell bullet proof products with a known high reliability. These amps are still a gamble IMO at this point (and I think even those that bought them would say the same). What if Craig bought 50 of these amps and lets say 15 had problems --- terrible but who knows?! And maybe not out of sight because from what I've seen on AVS a few of the few overall ordered have had issues. (Granted so far they have been taken care of admirably from what I've heard) But in the event of problems Craig MAY have to pay shipping both ways to/from the customer and to/from Asia with a 60 or 70lb amp? How much time, money, and headache is that? Not to mention he might start to see threads popping up like whack a mole about how Chase products are unreliable, which I don't see now... Elemental Designs has suffered this fate, and with less questionable amps. There isn't hardly a thread on avs where ED's supposed reliability issue doesn't get brought up. I assume only the minority of the people with ED subs and amps have issues, but even such --- reliability? is a grief that hurts their sales because of only those vocal few. I know I for one was turned off on their product based on those types of concerns when I was looking to buy my next set of subs! When people come to the avsforum and DIY arena's they oftentimes are on somewhat of a budget and and looking for the best sub for their money. These types of people, (myself included) are vocal about the good -- and the bad, we want all things and we want it cheap. If a $1000 amp blew up, most of us wouldn't just say ah -- I found that money under the couch cushion and walk away quietly. We'd want the issue fixed and we'd likely want the source to take care of the entire episode on their dime.

All I know is if I was a business I wouldn't touch those amps with a 10 foot pole, until they are vetted much futher - as in a couple years! I've bought a lot of electronics gear, more than most folk over the years, and most of my no name 'hopeful'/'gamble' (I can't believe I got this much product for this little money) purchases ended in frustration. Greg... I mean you no disrespect, I hope the amp works great for years, but I think you are crazy for buying one -- I mean two -- and I told you this in person so I don't need apologize for it now! :angel:

at least they boxed it nice - i guess. :fingerscrossed::boxer::peekaboo:

[Gorilla83]

Here is my take:

Even though it would likely be a small market, I think there is still a significant opportunity to bring in a high value product like the clone amps. Overall, in my opinion, the risk is worth the reward when we're talking this kind of power on the cheap. There really isn't another product of this magnitude that exists, and those that do cost several thousands more. Of course, for this to work for a small business like Craig or anyone else interested, and to maintain profitability, some time of local support would need to be available so that the amps wouldn't be crossing the ocean every time an issue surfaced.

With any new product at a low price point, new customers have to expect the bugs to be ironed out - as long as their is a reasonable path to help with customer service. Ideally we would have parts on hand somewhere in the US and/or a place of repair should (when) hey need service).

I suppose the decision will come down to these factors and also will be dictated by what the market will be willing to pay for such a product. Of course there are already many proven options out there for someone not wanting to take on the risk/hassle, but if this could become a streamlined process, it could be quite lucrative for both the supplier and customer base. :angel:

With all of this into consideration, I have a lot of respect for guys like HuskerOmaha that are willing to try out new products with such potential - even more so when they're willing to share information with fellow hobbyists like us. And believe me, I'm aware of some of the headaches that come with the hobby. In the last ten years, I've literally purchased tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. Some has worked very well, and others very much not. I could totally respect a small business's decision to stray from such risks, especially when they already have a solid customer base and a well-respected line of products. I think it's just the 'could-be' that keeps us going. :)

[HuskerOmaha]

I'll see what Craig says first before I reply to it all, as I just spent a couple days digesting the avsforum thread started by notnyt.

It would be stupid for many reasons (for an American company) to try and use Sanway as an OEM though!

[craigsub]

Hi guys - I have talked (via email) to Sanway about their amps. The reason was mostly to try to get a feel for how they operate.

I won't be getting involved in attempting to distribute their products for the following reasons:

1. They have no way of supporting warranty work in the USA.
2. CHT would have to order at least 100 units at a time, and at least two different amps, in order to get any type of price break from what a person can pay for a single unit.
3. The liability: If one catches on fire, etc ...
4. My gut tells me to stay away.

That being said, I am commited to having passive subwoofer designs in our higher end subs, and think they are a nice alternative for those looking for "bargain watts".

I am looking hard at the upcoming Peavey line of larger amps, based on what Chas posted in regards to the IPR-1600 on AVS.

[craigsub]

Greg - Good timing on your last post ... :biglaugh:

[Gorilla83]

1. They have no way of supporting warranty work in the USA.
2. CHT would have to order at least 100 units at a time, and at least two different amps, in order to get any type of price break from what a person can pay for a single unit.
3. The liability: If one catches on fire, etc ...
4. My gut tells me to stay away.


I am looking hard at the upcoming Peavey line of larger amps, based on what Chas posted in regards to the IPR-1600 on AVS.

With no hard change for a price break or warranty support, I do agree it sounds like there is not much to work with. It's pretty much a no brainer to stay away as a distributor- especially considering the liability area. I'd be willing to bet these amps are not UL approved, which could also pose another issue with Insurance companies should one catch fire and your house burns down. My father in law, being an neurotic electrical engineer, constantly reminds me of this. :) Good food for thought though. With that said, I'm sure I've purchased worse from Harbor freight and plugged it in, LOL.

I'm very much looking forward to the Peavey amps as well, in particular the IPR-7500 should it actually come to fruition. :applause:

[edoggrc51]

That IPR-7500 does look pretty freaking sweet!

[tesseract]

It would be stupid for many reasons (for an American company) to try and use Sanway as an OEM though!

I'll give a couple of reasons.

1. The tech for these amps is STOLEN from a legitimate company.

2. A popular Chinese manufacturing "best practice" is to use the cheapest available parts at any given time. One production run rarely uses the same parts as the last. Quality and performance varies wildly as a result. Outsider companies that successfully produce goods in China are forced to babysit their processes to ensure quality... and dare not turn their backs for a second!



That said, have fun with your amp, Greg. You went into this with your eyes open and I applaud your effort to explore the edges.

[HuskerOmaha]

Why I made this decision:

What other 2U, 25 lb amp out there, for ~$850 delivered, can produce 4400 W x 2 channels? Or 2100 W x 4 channels (Mk's current FP).
This one.

What other amp has been verified by the DIY community as tested to work </= 5 hz?
This one, among a few others.

My whole goal in starting down this hopefully short (for a few years) DIY road was to get widest bandwidth reproduction through a SMALL sealed box with L/T. To do that I needed mega power, small, solidly built enclosures, and drivers capable of high number displacement while also being capable of blending well with mains.

I looked at many power options, and talked to many people who I felt were in the know based on their posting history here and at avsforum and their current setups and what they have used throughout the years.

Yes, the clone has many risks. But the reward is great. I can buy 4 of these LG 14k clones (for what the lowest USED real LG is), save 2 of them for parts if I have to, and still be ahead. You have to wire money to China to some random name (no one has been robbed as of yet, and I'm SURE we would hear of that). You hope the shipment makes it here fine. You hope the components are at least fairly comparable and hold out.

You also have a support system. Notnyt is a like a genius with these being an engineer. Frankly, if mine crap out, I have no doubt I can ask him or others what to do. (Already is a series of photos on the thread on how-tos). So far these have been when the amps have been pushed too far. Most DIY people are into tweaking and playing with stuff. I'll take it apart if I have to.

Sanway, in my short time in this hobby, has been one of the most communicable and easiest to deal with purchase. Multiple emails, quick shipping, on time, good boxing.

They also have modified the amps based on AVSforum members feedback to them. They have modified the SUNON fans inside to the quieter models when you ask (now they are about as loud as the average projector instead of sounding like a jet engine--see notnyts videos in the avs thread). They have put on the heavy gauge 110 V plug. They send parts for the ones that have had issues (fans, fuses, etc).

So yes, I could have gotten a Marathon/Crown (questions on its <20 hz ability) and tried those (even knowing the ones with the Clones have measured up to +6 db with the same settings) or up to 4 EP4000 for what I'm doing.

If the clone works out I have more headroom than I need or any driver could use. I'm not using an amp at its limits but a comfortable level. If it doesn't work out, I'm out about $900. This could happen with many other purchases. It was pointed out that the Behringer factory is next door to Sanway and Canon FWIW. Yes, it is super weird wiring money via Western Union, but once you get over that it is the same as buying online.

Just laying out what I went through in my head on this purchase. If you have the time to read through the avsthread I would recommend it before buying so you know what is current and what has gone on in the past year with these.

So, I guess we will see what happens! Hopefully this one isn't DOA! :eek:

[mojave]

1. The tech for these amps is STOLEN from a legitimate company.

The patent has expired on the amp technology. I'm not sure how long the clones have been available, but currently the technology they are using is no longer stolen/illegal. It is interesting that Greg is trying so hard to be state of the art, but he is using 20+ year old technology! :D

[HuskerOmaha]

The patent has expired on the amp technology. I'm not sure how long the clones have been available, but currently the technology they are using is no longer stolen/illegal. It is interesting that Greg is trying so hard to be state of the art, but he is using 20+ year old technology! :D

You forgot the <5 year old patent LG has on its enclosure, though. :)