Confusion over Mark Seaton's Subs: What are the strengths/tradeoffs of each?

[Cujobob]

As I'm soon building my own little theater room, I've been looking more into getting a sub that can do 10-15 hz. I have an MFW-15 on the way to me, as we speak, but when looking over my next upgrade...I'm totally lost.

Sasquatch, BMF, Submersive...all are around the same price-range. I realize they each use a different method to get the job done, but how does a buyer know which to get?

[billnchristy]

I can answer the right-now version of that question.

Get the Submersive, the other two don't exist...yet. :thumbsup:

Having heard 0 of 3 I cannot provide real input though...I am sure Craig or MS himself will have a go at it though.

[m-fine]

The Sasquatch is a ported design and the BMF has passive radiators which are kinda like ports but better (and more costly). Both designs will have a much sharper rolloff below their tuning point which means it is unlikely either will be flat to 10 hz in room unless they are tuned in the lower teens. I am also guessing the economics of the BMF have changed significantly in the last two years and that it is not likely to come to market at the orriginal price point, but that is just a guess.

I beleive the big Seaton Sound Terraform XL will be tuned low enough to give you 10-11 hz extension, but I think it is priced higher as well. Like the first two, I do not believe you can order one of those yet either. On the plus side, because the thing is the size of a small stage there were rumors that it might include a stripper pole for free!

Finally the best of the bunch (OK I am biased). The SubMersive is a sealed sub with a gentle rolloff starting above 30 hz. This sounds sucky, but the rolloff is not only gentle, it matches fairly well with the gain curve experienced in a typical room. As the frequency gets lower, the submersive output rolls off and the room gain increases, offsetting each other until you have a nice flat curve down below 10 hz. In paractice you will probably have more room gain than rolloff and need EQ to get a flat response ( or your desired house curve) but that is true with all subs. Don't be fooled by the incredible extension though. The SubMersive is a sealed sub that is even better in the upper bass regions giving you tight powerful bass you can feel and hear. Take everything you have heard about a pair of MFW's for music and movies and kick it up a notch plus extend it a good octave below your ability to hear.

It is too early to say much about sasquatch other than we know it will be big and have an 18" driver.

The BMF is designed for large open spaces that will not get the benefits of room gain. Therefore expect more output in the 18-30hz range than the SubMersive, and if you put it in an enclosed room, expect to need some cut filters on the EQ. You really should be getting an EQ will any of these subs.

The SubMersive is designed for dedicated rooms that are generally enclosed, not familly rooms with vaulted ceilings that open to your kitchen etc. My room is 3800 cuft with a single door and it extends quite well into the single digits with the door closed or open. The SubMersive has a rough black finish on it, so it is not going to be anywhere near as pretty as a satin black TCA or AV123 product let alone the veneers and other finishes they will have.

THe Sasquatch is going to be an interesting player. Honestly I do not know what the design goals for it really are in terms of room gain and sound other than it is designed by Mark for Craig. You can bet that the upper bass dynamics and sound quality for music will be excellent and they will sacrifice nothing for extension numbers or 20 hz output graphs. This will be a good sounding sub for people who like to listen, not measure all day. Other than that, I'll comment more when I get my hands on the prototype. I already have a deal with UPS to divert the shipment from Erie over to my house ;)

[craigsub]

As I'm soon building my own little theater room, I've been looking more into getting a sub that can do 10-15 hz. I have an MFW-15 on the way to me, as we speak, but when looking over my next upgrade...I'm totally lost.

Sasquatch, BMF, Submersive...all are around the same price-range. I realize they each use a different method to get the job done, but how does a buyer know which to get?

What you should do is to answer a few questions for yourself:

1. What is a little theater room ? Dimensions, materials for flooring and walls, etc ...

2. What experiences have you had with 10-15 Hz that make you think you want it ?

That's a start.

[Cujobob]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm in no hurry for the sub as my room isn't even built yet, by the time my theater is in place...might be 3 months or so.

Craig, I'm guessing it'll end up at about 2000 cubic feet (drywall with insulation in walls/ceiling) and I've not yet really experienced 10-15 hz, but just really want to :thumbsup:
More importantly, I'd want to be sure I got a sub that wouldn't run out of output 20-50 hz.

Good chance any of Mark Seaton's 2K subs will be more than I really need, the problem is just that he has three subs in a similar price range and its hard for someone to know which to get.

I assume the BMF is meant for larger rooms and maximum output...is the Sasquatch an MFW-15 on steroids?

[craigsub]

CB ... I have a feeling you will be pretty shocked at how hard the MFW-15 hits - and the Sasquatch will be a surprise in a lot of ways. :stirthepot:

[CloudStrife]

What's a Submersive?

[craigsub]

A Submersive is Mark Seaton's dual 15 inch sealed subwoofer. It's a build-to-order design, and quite the performer, probably outgunning a JL Audio Fathom for $1500 less in MSRP.

[hawkeyejw]

Nice writeup, m-fine. There's definitely some good info in there on how different subwoofer designs may apply to different listening environments and what each one will give you. :thumbsup:

[m-fine]

Perhaps we could use a what you get at different frequencies explanation in the audio 101 section, but I think what Craig was getting at with his question 2 is that 10-15 hz range may not be the best place to spend your money.

I am a believer, BUT you need special circumstances to even be able to tell you have that kind of extension. You can play test tones at 90db and unless there is a lot of distortion or something in the room rattling you will have no idea anything is playing. You can see it on the meter but hear or fell nothing. As the volume goes up and the length of the note is sustained, you can begin to get a skin crawling erie feelng. The ranges of hearing pant flapping and slam are well above 10 hz and I think we would all agree you should make sure you get those first and then worry about the very very deep stuff.

[Cujobob]

CB ... I have a feeling you will be pretty shocked at how hard the MFW-15 hits - and the Sasquatch will be a surprise in a lot of ways. :stirthepot:

will the Sasquatch be more than I need?

[craigsub]

CB - Need is a funny thing. When we get a Sasquatch here, it will get a shakedown against our pair of MFW-15's - complete with GP measurements.

Then we will try to figure out if it is something you WANT. :thumbsup:

[Nuance]

^Want? Who wouldn't want one of those? :)

[dlfromcanada]

A Submersive is Mark Seaton's dual 15 inch sealed subwoofer. It's a build-to-order design, and quite the performer, probably outgunning a JL Audio Fathom for $1500 less in MSRP.

would it outgun an SVS 13-Ultra?

[craigsub]

would it outgun an SVS 13-Ultra?

That's a good question. The answer is going to be somewhat elusive. The Submersive is part of Mark's own line, and I have never had the chance to experience it. A big part of the performance is the Submersive's response curve can be matched to one's own room. Mark - or another custom installer - usually delivers a Submersive, and there is a fairly substantial installation fee involved.

Will the Submersive play louder than an Ultra ? No.

Will it work better in certain rooms - especially moderate, sealed rooms ? More than likely.

Sasquatch is going to turn a lot of heads. Mark is literally taking my dream subwoofer and making it into a reproduceable reality.