av123 Discussion Thread

[droht]

Here is a deja vu all over again kind of thread. Didn't expect to be opening this one up, but given what has transpired at Audioholics I felt the need to do so. Active threads about the raffles and refund issues at av123 seem to keep some pressure on mls to do the right thing. I believe it is a worthwhile discussion to try and keep afloat here.

Craig has given his blessing for this thread, as long as we steer clear of personal financial info.

[wesley63]

Yeah, when I started to read the final post from Matt34, I thought it was a very funny joke. This thread is being closed (wink, wink) just like ones over there. Then I noticed that it actually was closed.

That thread had some very valuable information in it, but the name calling was just belittling the facts. Many will argue that the names are accurate, but I still think the facts will speak for themselves.

Here's to hoping this thread can have more details and less cheap shots.

Jim

[Chu Gai]

Well, for those who haven't followed the AH saga,

I'd like to bring to everyone's attention a few things that I've discovered.

First, while running raffles and properly donating the funds is a noble thing, AFAIK, it's just about illegal in every state for a company to do so on their own. Raffles in many states are lumped together with bingo when it comes to legalities. You've generally got to be a non-profit organization and have to apply for a license. Further very accurate records need to be kept and the winnings have to be delivered within a very short time frame. If that is not possible, the appropriate agency has to be notified. Hence, it would be my strong recommendation that TCA not engage in raffles unless they're under the direction of an appropriate organization.

Should MLS fund each and every raffle at this time, he is still in violation of numerous laws both state and federal. They'll be coming after him.

Secondly, in my own personal inquiries, I've been informed that the Ballet Nouveau, where Mark's granddaughter dances, only received approximately 1/4 of the funds that were raised. This was briefly brought to Mark's specific attention in a short lived post over at 123. I've made further inquiries into other areas such as the Red Cross (nothing really to say on that...large organization may or may not bother...don't know) and the Jimmy Fund. The latter occured recently. I've been unable to corroborate Khabarovsk raffles. There doesn't seem to be a way to contact the appropriate adoption agency without calling them. I will say though that donations to the sundry adoption agencies there are generally made through intermediary places like agencies here that are registered to conduct such business with Russia. Other adoption agencies if you will. Direct donations usually involve clothing and toys which are brought over by prospective individuals looking to adopt Russian children.

[buzz3]

Chu Gai... It may have been posted elsewhere so please forgive me if I missed it. Would you be so kind as to tell us who you are and what you do for a living? I just want to make sure you come across as credible as possible. No need to give AV123 any ammo about you hiding behind anonymity. Thanks.

[engtaz]

Chu Gai "TCA's Barney Fife" is the official non-owed or owner of AV123 gear that hates MLS and AV123.

[buzz3]

Lets not go there engtaz... I know what he's posted.

Edit: My bad, I just saw his handle...

[django1]

Here is a deja vu all over again kind of thread. Didn't expect to be opening this one up, but given what has transpired at Audioholics I felt the need to do so. Active threads about the raffles and refund issues at av123 seem to keep some pressure on mls to do the right thing. I believe it is a worthwhile discussion to try and keep afloat here.

Craig has given his blessing for this thread, as long as we steer clear of personal financial info.

Two surprises in a row...:dizzy:

Good effort Dean!

I PMed Matt over there. I would encourage others to do so...

[dvenardos]

Just when I thought we were free of the comedy of errors, here we go again. :crazy:

[Jed M]

If the new allegations of Mark not paying out the very first raffle back in 2004 are true, then his behavior is indefensible on any level. Actually his behavior has never been defensible, but now his intent would be indefensible. I will await his plan like the rest of you.

[gonk]

I just saw the thread at Audioholics and was trying to think of what I might be able gather for Matt that could be useful as a summary of facts. I've got a really rough spreadsheet summary of what charities were beneficiaries for the raffles and when the raffles were started (which I used to get numbers right for my short-lived raffle thread at AV123 earlier today), and I've got an assortment of links to specific posts at various places. I've also got a few PDF copies of a couple threads at AV123, as a "just in case it gets deleted" record. Most of what I've been looking at lately has been raffle stuff, but there are also a pretty good number of refunds owed - I haven't even tried to get a full list of the refunds that have been publicly commented on.

The Audioholics thread probably can benefit from some rest. The useful information is there, but one side effect of AV123's silence is a sort of "back pressure" that builds. The background chatter was getting pretty intense. There's certainly plenty of good reason for strong emotions and ire, but it gets hard to manage after a while. Hopefully in a few days it will re-open. In the meanwhile, a separate sticky "AV123 raffle/refund summary thread" is an intriguing notion.

Oh, and thanks to Craig for this thread. I know it's hugely inconvenient for a company to have discussions about some other company (especially discussions like this) rattling around the forum. It's also nice to be posting with clearly-defined ground rules. Since we're in Adult Swim, let me just say ****! is it tedious to try to figure out where the AV123 moderators are drawing the lines while still trying to sustain a discussion of substantive issues - it's like being a cross between Alfred the butler and a mine detector (very proper chap, with an occasional "boom!").

[Chu Gai]

Chu Gai... It may have been posted elsewhere so please forgive me if I missed it. Would you be so kind as to tell us who you are and what you do for a living? I just want to make sure you come across as credible as possible. No need to give AV123 any ammo about you hiding behind anonymity. Thanks.

Your concern is noble. I've already stated my name. I have no problem referring to you as Buzz3. I'm involved in marketing aspects for a chemical concern. I dont really care what you do. No offence. AV123 doesn't have any ammo that I know of. That costs money. I've already posted an email exchange by a person who assisted me with looking into the Ballet Nouveau raffles. The details of that can be found in the long running Audioholics thread which is closed (temporarily). I've also referenced a link which discusses some of the particulars of the Colorado law as it pertains to raffles.
AV123, MLS, his wife, and his step-daughter can hurl all the ammo they wish at me or anybody else. That would be a misguided allocation of resources and time. With the precious little they have left, I would urge them to seek very good legal council because what they will be facing is rather serious which will involve state and federal matters. From my admittedly lack of legal experience I don't see how either MLS or AV123 will survive. Mark can paint a different picture if he chooses. Maybe it'll generate more cash flow. I hope so, he'll need that and more.

[gonk]

If the new allegations of Mark not paying out the very first raffle back in 2004 are true, then his behavior is indefensible on any level. Actually his behavior has never been defensible, but now his intent would be indefensible. I will await his plan like the rest of you.

This was the exact line of reasoning that flashed through my mind earlier this week. The excuse of difficult financial times was never a valid justification for me, but if the first raffle was truly abused (as the information provided by Ballet Nouveau Colorado suggests) then even that excuse crumples and we're left with a sticky mess.

For the sake of Mark and AV123, I really hope that's a simple explanation (one that involves the money having been delivered on time years ago, not some "caught with their hand in the cookie jar" resolution months or years later). If there is, the sooner it can be released and verified, the better.

[django1]

For the sake of Mark and AV123, I really hope that's a simple explanation (one that involves the money having been delivered on time years ago, not some "caught with their hand in the cookie jar" resolution months or years later). If there is, the sooner it can be released and verified, the better.

I posted at the av123 thread reminding MLS that his continued silence on the subject of the raffles leads us to accept the worst possible conclusions as true...

[buzz3]

Your concern is noble. I've already stated my name. I have no problem referring to you as Buzz3. I'm involved in marketing aspects for a chemical concern. I dont really care what you do. No offence. AV123 doesn't have any ammo that I know of. That costs money. I've already posted an email exchange by a person who assisted me with looking into the Ballet Nouveau raffles. The details of that can be found in the long running Audioholics thread which is closed (temporarily). I've also referenced a link which discusses some of the particulars of the Colorado law as it pertains to raffles.
AV123, MLS, his wife, and his step-daughter can hurl all the ammo they wish at me or anybody else. That would be a misguided allocation of resources and time. With the precious little they have left, I would urge them to seek very good legal council because what they will be facing is rather serious which will involve state and federal matters. From my admittedly lack of legal experience I don't see how either MLS or AV123 will survive. Mark can paint a different picture if he chooses. Maybe it'll generate more cash flow. I hope so, he'll need that and more.

No, you never stated your name. Interesting how you dodge the truth where your concerned but demand it from others. I would think at this point that you better hope and pray that Mark goes under for the reasons you boast. If not you may need to take your own advice on the lawyer. As smart as you seem to be I do hope you know better then to think your real name isn't already known.

[buzz3]

Well, I hope mine isn't considered an attack. I just find it really odd that someone who has no horse in the race has so much energy to focus on all of this. I don't even think I have seen where the guy purchased so much as a raffle ticket. Now he's just sure that Mark is going to get prosecuted? All the while he refuses to even give us his own information? Something just doesn't add up and I wanted to check him out. I guess it's that "you give us no info so we'll assume the worst".

Either way, Mark will have to pay for whatever sins he's made in all of this. I just wouldn't want to be the one spreading all of this if it doesn't come to be. Take care. Buzz ;)