Well ... that was a surprise

[chessman]

I visited a brick and mortar store today and auditioned a pair of Magnepan 20.1 speakers, a pair of McIntosh MC1.2KW monoblock amps (1200 watts each!), a McIntosh C2300 tube pre-amp, and a McIntosh CD player (did not catch the model). I was prepared to be dazzled. Instead, I was befuddled.

The store rig did not sound as good as my own "mid-fi" rig. Thinking it must be some psycho-acoustic hangup of my own, I called my wife in to listen. She immediately said it did not sound as good as what we had at home. (And that was before she heard the prices :shiftyeyes:)

The store rig did not sound bad, it sounded good, but not great. I was sure I was going to hear great. Mainly it was just loud. The Maggies were about 4 feet out into the room and about 3 feet from the side walls. Acoustic treatment in the room was very light - merely some bass traps in the upper corners and they looked insubstantial. There was not even absorption at the first reflection points. The room was small (my guess, 12 by 16)

Maybe the setup was so poor that the store managed to make $50,000 in equipment sound routine. Maybe my Perpetual Technology P-3A (Empirical Audio modded) DAC blew away the McIntosh DAC. Maybe I have tin ears and cannot really tell good from bad (naw, that can't be it :poke:). But I sure was surprised.

What do you guys think? I am betting the Maggies did not have proper placement.

[gotchaforce]

ive never listened to magnepans but maybe that speaker is just a preferred taste... even though magnepan people cant see to recommend any other speaker besides their own :dizzy:

[Jason]

Wow, that is a shocker.

I'd love to hear the flagship maggies. That front end was top notch, too.

That does sound like a smallish room for them, but it is also possible you don't care for dipolar sound.

I see you're in OH....I have a friend in Dayton. You guys seem to have some nice shops in your area....

[lngbruno]

Randy,

A couple of weeks ago I had a similar experience with different gear. I travelled to NJ and went to audition a pair of Vandersteen 5A's, with Niam CDP and other gear I can't remember. When I sat down I was expecting to be blown away and I wasn't. After a few different tracks I asked if I could listen to the ProAc D38 with some Primare electronics (this was about 1/3 the MSRP of the Vandy system) and it sounded marvellous. IMHO this may represent that the room and position of the speakers play an integral part in synergy and overall sound.

The room was large enough and appeared to be properly acoustically treated. They were in the 1/5 spot and maybe should have been closer to the 1/3 spot where the ProAc's were???? I think if the Vandy's were moved further out from the front wall they may have blown me away too, but this goes down as a missed opportunity by the salesman who should have know better.

Peace and later,
Lou

[skullguise]

I'm thinking a 12 x 16 un- or minimally-treated room is WAY to small for those Maggies with that amplication.....

IMO, shame on the store for even setting it up there.....

[chessman]

Yeah, the more I think about it I think the setup was the problem. It was almost as if the sales guys did not really understand what they had there. I think the room was too small for the rig without sound treatments.

As for not liking dipoles .... might be something to that. I thought the bottom end sounded thin.

What was shocking for me was that the sound stage was neither deeper not wider than what I have. I expected cymbals to shimmer and guitars to ache. I thought the attack and decay on pianos would seem like a pianio was in the room. Instead it sounded good, but not that good.

Disclaimer: the speakers may have been Magnepan 3.6s. We went through a couple of rooms and the guy was reeling off model numbers pretty quickly.

[Jason]

Disclaimer: the speakers may have been Magnepan 3.6s. We went through a couple of rooms and the guy was reeling off model numbers pretty quickly.

The 3.6's are still a very, very nice speaker. I've spent several hours at a shop in north Dallas that had the 1.6's and I preferred them (for 2 channel) to any of the Rockets I've heard. Not as much bass, not as 'punchy' but more open and natural sounding with a *much* larger stage.

[woofersus]

Where did you demo those? I'm close enough to columbus that I'd like to check it out for myself at some point.

[kingdeezieav123refugee]

I could be wrong, but I thought dipoles were less prone to room interactions..

I think perhaps the Maggies just aren't your cup of tea.

In any event, if room interaction was the problem, I do understand how a small room can take something from great to just good.

[corndog71]

Yep, I've heard plenty of $$$$ store setups that sounded good but left me with the feeling "that's it?"

Conversely, I've heard basic Linn stereos with no care in setup sound excellent.

[Jason]

I could be wrong, but I thought dipoles were less prone to room interactions..

I think perhaps the Maggies just aren't your cup of tea.

In any event, if room interaction was the problem, I do understand how a small room can take something from great to just good.

In my very limited experience this is true.

This is not to say that they can't benefit from room treatments.

He said it was loud. My bet is that in that smallish room, the room itself was *ringing* This is the problem I have in my room at 100+ db levels. Once you get to this point, it does seem to lose some of the magic of planars, imo.

Also, some folks don't really like the way the sound seems to come from way behind the speakers with these.

[chessman]

Where did you demo those? I'm close enough to columbus that I'd like to check it out for myself at some point.

Audio Encounters on Rt. 161 between Worthington and Dublin.

[NekoAudio]

Dipoles need room treatments in all the normal places and also behind the speaker. IMO, Magnepans are excellent speakers. They can't go as loud but you can't beat full range planar magnetics for accuracy and precision.

They will sound very different than box speakers though, so if you like how box speakers sound you may not like planars. Likewise, they sound different than dipoles using cone drivers, in part because the baffle is still there with open-baffle speakers. They will also sound different than planars that have their backwave blocked (i.e. LS-*, Minis, Ref 3 tweeters's).

For critical music listening, I prefer my Magnepan 1.6's over my Ref 3's and my Strata Minis. I also prefer Magnepans over Martin Logan. Flat planars, like Magnepan, are more sensitive to your listening angle. Martin Logans are a little curved, so less sensitive.

[Kevin_Wadsworth]

Audio Encounters on Rt. 161 between Worthington and Dublin.

Huh. I haven't been in there in a few years. The last time I was there they were mostly a Paradigm shop. If I have the time, I'll stop by and see if my impressions match yours (<3 miles from my house).

I stopped into Digital Interiors (almost across the road) to look at seating when I was building my HT and they had a nice Martin Logan setup at the time.

[chessman]

Huh. I haven't been in there in a few years. The last time I was there they were mostly a Paradigm shop. If I have the time, I'll stop by and see if my impressions match yours (<3 miles from my house).

I stopped into Digital Interiors (almost across the road) to look at seating when I was building my HT and they had a nice Martin Logan setup at the time.

I was in Digital Interiors about 6 months ago. They were running the Martin Logans off of an AVR. I thought it sounded average at best. In contrast, what I heard at Progressive Audio (towards New Albany) sounded great. I really think some stores have great gear, but set it up poorly.