Bass Traps vs Panels

[Jethro]

I think I have figured out a "plan" for treating my area. I'm going to do 4 panels and 4 bass traps to start.

I plan on getting this knock off owens corning 703 made by knauff.
I'm pretty sure this is the way to go for panels.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Knauf-Acoustical-Board--KB2.html

Now, what about bass traps. Do I use the same acoustic board but double it up to 4" ? If so, I can just buy 2 packs of this knauff stuff, double up using 8 boards for 4 traps, and use the remaining 4 for panels.

[SnowmaNick]

You can, and then place it in the corners so their is an air gap behind the traps. For bass, thicker is always better and the first areas to concentrate on are the corners. You probably already knew that but I wanted to look smart. :yes:

[Jethro]

I just bought some grey foam stuff from elemental designs for behind the rocket 450s and bigfoot. Should be here thursday. Probably going to just get that knauff stuff and make some panels. However, I was looking at doing panels without making frames for them. You can just wrap fabric over the boards and hang em' up. I'm still contemplating this whole treatment situation, and am going broke buying stuff all the time... so I want this on the cheap. :assshake:

[a-rone]

I just bought some grey foam stuff from elemental designs for behind the rocket 450s and bigfoot. Should be here thursday. Probably going to just get that knauff stuff and make some panels. However, I was looking at doing panels without making frames for them. You can just wrap fabric over the boards and hang em' up. I'm still contemplating this whole treatment situation, and am going broke buying stuff all the time... so I want this on the cheap. :assshake:

What grey foam stuff from eD, can you put up a link?

[nwbnd]

IIRC, for corner traps you want 4" with a minimum 2' per side air gap. If the panels are faced you want to remove the face from the outer panel and point the face of the inner panel toward the corner. Don't remember what lower frequency that will achieve. Why don't I just do this.

Ethan Winer on Traps

Looks like he's recommending 705 over 703 for traps.

[nwbnd]

What grey foam stuff from eD, can you put up a link?

I think they just started selling it a week or 2 ago.

ED acoustic foam

[Jethro]

I think they just started selling it a week or 2 ago.

ED acoustic foam

Yah. Thats it. I talked to Brett or Brent for about a half hour about all this. He keeps it real. He ended up having me move my whole room around basically, crawling around for bass... etc. He also said to get 6 of these foam deals for behind the big foot and 450 towers. Then get bass traps and panels which they don't carry, as the gray foamers won't pass waf on walls. He said they are in the process of bringing a line of traps and panels to the table soon. For now, they have the foam.

[lngbruno]

Jethro,

You do understand that the foam panels are basically going to absorb higher frequencies - probably starting around 1000 Hz and going higher.

For one example of how you can make an effective bass trap please go here http://www.readyacoustics.com/index....products_id=22
Note how they are constucted using 2'x4' panels and 1'x4' panels to fill the corner void. You could use one of the sick packs you are purchasing and come pretty close to making one of these as a DIY project for under $100.

Another method is to take the 2'x4' panels and cut them in half forming 2'x'2 squares and them cut them again on the diagonal to form two triangles. Now stack these from floor to ceiling in at least two corners. A few folks I know glued them together forming two 4' high units. They made a sock for them and they turned out very nice and were effective.

Have fun experimenting.

L

[SnowmaNick]

I think Jethro is already aware that the foam would be more effective at mids and highs. As for the superchunk traps, yes they are very effective but you can do a panel across a corner and get good results. I have found for the lowest freq's eq works better at taming peaks than traps for the sub and placement is the most important aspect in the scenario. Traps are great for midbass clarity but below 60hz you are starting to look at traps that are overly large. You can trap the heck out of a room but still have issues if your placement sucks.

Jethro, have you measured your room yet? I believe you said you have an eq.2 so you can at least tackle two peaks with the eq. The Knauff product is very similiar to the owens corning 703 ( I have made traps out of both) and is quite a bit cheaper. I would recommend making some sort of frame though as it will help keep the traps in better condition over time, ease hanging and placement and make it easier to do a nice clean install. Just buy some fabric at Joann's for the bass traps, the material doesn't need to be acoustically transparent as you are focusing on lower freq's. The sound panels for the mids and highs are going to need to be a bit more transparent though as too tight of a weave can reflect the mids and highs.

[Mep]

Unfortunately the mids and highs tend not to travel behind the speaker as much as the lows. The foam would be good to cut down on sound inside an av cabinet though.

Nhan has a pretty good set up with the heavy mid traps behind the speakers. I would take 3 of those Knauff traps and put them in the back of each speaker and then double 4 of them up for 2 corner traps and then use the last 5 for first reflection points. You'll want a wood frame just to give yourself a little bit of space between the wall and the trap so the trap can do double duty on the sound that passes through the first time and bounces off the wall back on to your insulation.

[Jethro]

Jethro,

You do understand that the foam panels are basically going to absorb higher frequencies - probably starting around 1000 Hz and going higher.

For one example of how you can make an effective bass trap please go here http://www.readyacoustics.com/index....products_id=22
Note how they are constucted using 2'x4' panels and 1'x4' panels to fill the corner void. You could use one of the sick packs you are purchasing and come pretty close to making one of these as a DIY project for under $100.

Another method is to take the 2'x4' panels and cut them in half forming 2'x'2 squares and them cut them again on the diagonal to form two triangles. Now stack these from floor to ceiling in at least two corners. A few folks I know glued them together forming two 4' high units. They made a sock for them and they turned out very nice and were effective.

Have fun experimenting.

L

Cool Lou, thanks for your post. I like the idea of cutting triangles for a tight corner fit. (1) 4' x 2' board would yield 8" in height... So 6 boards per 4' high unit. 2 of these 6 packs http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Ro...f-6--RB60.html and some fabric and I would have 2 corner bass traps for under $150.

[Jethro]

I think Jethro is already aware that the foam would be more effective at mids and highs. As for the superchunk traps, yes they are very effective but you can do a panel across a corner and get good results. I have found for the lowest freq's eq works better at taming peaks than traps for the sub and placement is the most important aspect in the scenario. Traps are great for midbass clarity but below 60hz you are starting to look at traps that are overly large. You can trap the heck out of a room but still have issues if your placement sucks.

Jethro, have you measured your room yet? I believe you said you have an eq.2 so you can at least tackle two peaks with the eq. The Knauff product is very similiar to the owens corning 703 ( I have made traps out of both) and is quite a bit cheaper. I would recommend making some sort of frame though as it will help keep the traps in better condition over time, ease hanging and placement and make it easier to do a nice clean install. Just buy some fabric at Joann's for the bass traps, the material doesn't need to be acoustically transparent as you are focusing on lower freq's. The sound panels for the mids and highs are going to need to be a bit more transparent though as too tight of a weave can reflect the mids and highs.

No I don't know how to measure my room. I do have an EQ2 but I'm also a noob with that. I have used AVIA and an SPL meter + audyssey to get it to the point it is right now. I also put one of the subs in the listening position today and crawled around and found a better spot for the subs. I just finished watching twilight on blu-ray and I'm very happy with the improvement in sound from changing the room layout a bit. I also moved the couch forward a bit as per recommendation from Brett at Elemental designs because I was basically sitting in the midpoint of the room. I do plan on framing the panels that will be wall hanging for sure. I suppose its time to figure out how to work the EQ2 as well. Man, this is getting complicated :hissyfit:

Heres the room layout, just put one sub in the left front corner and one in the back right corner. Those were where I got the most bass response during my crawl test earlier today.

[SnowmaNick]

Hometheatershack.com hosts the Room EQ Wizard (REW) which is the easiest program I have used to get a decent measurement. The wiring is a bt of a chore to figure out and the learning cure can be a bit stiff but the FAQ section covers most of it. You can use your SPL meter, laptop and a soundcard to get the measurements. The site also hosts a list of correction values that you can save and load for your particular SPL meter. REW can graph your rooms response at the listening position and you can take several measurements and see how the response is at multiple positions. It's pretty darn snazzy and the program itself is free to download and use. Adjusting the eq.2 will be a little different as I do not know if they are loading anything for that eq. The worst case is you burn a couple of hours and a few beers while you experiment with it. Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if eD was willing to give you a hand with some recommended settings if you email them the REW graphs. Besides the eq REW can show you what frequencies you are having the most issues with and you can base your sound trap decisions around that knowledge.

[Jethro]

This is what I think Lou is talking about basically.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_tri_trap.html

This would be easy like sunday morning to make.

[Jethro]

Hometheatershack.com hosts the Room EQ Wizard (REW) which is the easiest program I have used to get a decent measurement. The wiring is a bt of a chore to figure out and the learning cure can be a bit stiff but the FAQ section covers most of it. You can use your SPL meter, laptop and a soundcard to get the measurements. The site also hosts a list of correction values that you can save and load for your particular SPL meter. REW can graph your rooms response at the listening position and you can take several measurements and see how the response is at multiple positions. It's pretty darn snazzy and the program itself is free to download and use. Adjusting the eq.2 will be a little different as I do not know if they are loading anything for that eq. The worst case is you burn a couple of hours and a few beers while you experiment with it. Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if eD was willing to give you a hand with some recommended settings if you email them the REW graphs. Besides the eq REW can show you what frequencies you are having the most issues with and you can base your sound trap decisions around that knowledge.

What if I don't have a laptop?