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  • Stupid HDMI / Audio question....

    Ok, so in my previous HT rig that was in my basement (currently fighting flooding problems), I had my DENON (wow, nice to be able to actually type that out ;)), DVD 2900 hooked up to my 55" Mitts RPTV via component video cable. I ran analog audio from the DVDP into my DENON AVR-3802. So, every time watching a DVD, we obviously ran the audio through the AVR, not the TV.

    Recently, we got a great deal on a 40" Samsung 1080P LCD TV for use in our temporary TV/movie viewing room. I currently have a Panny DVD recorder hooked up via HDMI 1.3 cable to the TV. There are several OTA shows we record and watch throughout the week. We don't even have the AVR set up in the rig. All movie (DVD) watching is done with the audio running through the HDMI to the TV.

    We have also been looking into finding a deal on a Blue-Ray player. Obviously, I would hook that up via HDMI 1.3 to the TV as well for the best picture correct? But, since the HDMI also carries audio information, how would I hook up audio so that I could add my AVR and real speakers into the mix so that we could enjoy the full BR experience? Do todays BR players allow you to assign audio out so that the audio signal is output via SPDIF, optical or RCA's?

    Sorry for the silly question....

    EDIT: Running the HDMI through the AVR is not an option since the 3802 (while built like a tank and a GREAT AVR), does not have any HDMI capability.
    John W.
    Indy

  • #2
    Originally posted by quadman
    Ok, so in my previous HT rig that was in my basement (currently fighting flooding problems), I had my DENON (wow, nice to be able to actually type that out ;)), DVD 2900 hooked up to my 55" Mitts RPTV via component video cable. I ran analog audio from the DVDP into my DENON AVR-3802. So, every time watching a DVD, we obviously ran the audio through the AVR, not the TV.

    Recently, we got a great deal on a 40" Samsung 1080P LCD TV for use in our temporary TV/movie viewing room. I currently have a Panny DVD recorder hooked up via HDMI 1.3 cable to the TV. There are several OTA shows we record and watch throughout the week. We don't even have the AVR set up in the rig. All movie (DVD) watching is done with the audio running through the HDMI to the TV.

    We have also been looking into finding a deal on a Blue-Ray player. Obviously, I would hook that up via HDMI 1.3 to the TV as well for the best picture correct? But, since the HDMI also carries audio information, how would I hook up audio so that I could add my AVR and real speakers into the mix so that we could enjoy the full BR experience? Do todays BR players allow you to assign audio out so that the audio signal is output via SPDIF, optical or RCA's?

    Sorry for the silly question....

    EDIT: Running the HDMI through the AVR is not an option since the 3802 (while built like a tank and a GREAT AVR), does not have any HDMI capability.
    The answer to the last question is YES! That's how I'm running my PS3 and Directv boxes right now. HDMI into the TV. Optical into the AVR. Of course, you won't get anything beyond the standard DD and DTS (I think it down converts the new DD and DTS signals down to a higher bit-rate standard DTS signal that non-HDMI (audio supporting) receivers can use.
    PhenomeNhan Audio Video

    Your authorized ONIX dealer for the Great States of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida.!
    [email protected]

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    • #3
      Originally posted by PhenomeNhan
      The answer to the last question is YES! That's how I'm running my PS3 and Directv boxes right now. HDMI into the TV. Optical into the AVR. Of course, you won't get anything beyond the standard DD and DTS (I think it down converts the new DD and DTS signals down to a higher bit-rate standard DTS signal that non-HDMI (audio supporting) receivers can use.
      Cool thanks Nhan.... that's ok since it's only a temporary rig anyway. It will be our secondary room when we get the basement situation finally taken care of. But it does tell me that for true HDMI audio capabilities, I'm going to need an HDMI capable AVR I guess.

      Sigh.... does the $$$ pit ever cease?!? :crying:
      John W.
      Indy

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      • #4
        Originally posted by quadman
        Cool thanks Nhan.... that's ok since it's only a temporary rig anyway. It will be our secondary room when we get the basement situation finally taken care of. But it does tell me that for true HDMI audio capabilities, I'm going to need an HDMI capable AVR I guess.

        Sigh.... does the $$$ pit ever cease?!? :crying:
        Nope. :neener:
        Randy
        Wilson Sophia 2/BAT VK-600SE/BAT VK-52SE/BAT VK-5DSE/Fathom 113 x2/Emotiva DMC-1 and MPS-1/Oppo BDP-83 SE/Exact Power/SMS-1 bass equalizer

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        • #5
          Originally posted by quadman
          Cool thanks Nhan.... that's ok since it's only a temporary rig anyway. It will be our secondary room when we get the basement situation finally taken care of. But it does tell me that for true HDMI audio capabilities, I'm going to need an HDMI capable AVR I guess.

          Sigh.... does the $$$ pit ever cease?!? :crying:
          No problem, buddy. Well, if you can get a Blu-ray player with 7.1 Analog outs, you can take advantage of the higher-resolution (albeit in LPCM format, rather than bitstream), in order to enjoy as close to the newer formats as possible.
          PhenomeNhan Audio Video

          Your authorized ONIX dealer for the Great States of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida.!
          [email protected]

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by quadman
            ...it does tell me that for true hdmi audio capabilities, i'm going to need an hdmi capable avr i guess.
            OR, as Nhan points out, a receiver with multichannel inputs and a Blu-ray player that has multichannel outputs.

            If your current AVR has multichannel inputs, your choice is paying the extra cost of a Blu-ray player with multichannel outputs ($100+ more than a player without them), or investing in an HDMI capable AVR plus a less expensive Blu-ray player without the multi-channel outs.

            I'm using a Panasonic BD55 with my older AVR and it is terrific. BUT, I really want an HDMI capable AVR. Someday. :yes:
            Jack

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ajax
              OR, as Nhan points out, a receiver with multichannel inputs and a Blu-ray player that has multichannel outputs.

              If your current AVR has multichannel inputs, your choice is paying the extra cost of a Blu-ray player with multichannel outputs ($100+ more than a player without them), or investing in an HDMI capable AVR plus a less expensive Blu-ray player without the multi-channel outs.

              I'm using a Panasonic BD55 with my older AVR and it is terrific. BUT, I really want an HDMI capable AVR. Someday. :yes:
              Yeah.... the DENON AVR-3802 had an impressive feature set (for it's time). It was the third tier receiver in the DENON line up in '02. There was the 5802, 4802 and then the 3802 and down from there. It DOES in fact have multi channel inputs.

              I don't understand what LPCM versus Bitstream mean.... but that's for another day I guess. Thanks everyone!
              John W.
              Indy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by quadman
                I don't understand what LPCM versus Bitstream mean....
                Me neither. But I know that, even though I'm not connected via HDMI, I'm getting the benefit of the new audio formats.

                Found an almost understandable explanation of the difference.

                PCM stream or bit stream


                And this from another source:

                "DTS-HD-MA and Dolby True are the same concept as zip files on a PC, you can compress them to a smaller size but can extract them back to their full size and potential. Your player is doing just that when it decodes Dolby True and DTS-HD-MA and converts them into LPCM. No quality is lost, it's a bit for bit reproduction of the Dolby True or DTS-HD-MA track. For audio quality you are relying on the DACs in your preamp/processor and associated amp. The only benefit of preamp/processors with on-board decoding of DTS-HD-MA and Dolby True vs sending the "unzipped" audio in LPCM format is the satisfaction of seeing the little icon light up and display DTS-HD-Master Audio or Dolby True."
                Jack

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                • #9
                  I am going to be going with the Oppo BD player when it comes out and use its analog outs. A bit pricey compared to the other BD players but the analog section is supposed to be outstanding, developed in conjunction with Nuforce and not so pricey when you consider the cost of a new AVR.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PhenomeNhan
                    No problem, buddy. Well, if you can get a Blu-ray player with 7.1 Analog outs, you can take advantage of the higher-resolution (albeit in LPCM format, rather than bitstream), in order to enjoy as close to the newer formats as possible.
                    Sorry can let that one go Nham:boxer: 7.1 analog puts out...wait for it.... analog... not LPCM. Bitstream would be pretty horrible over analog...screech....
                    LPCM is only applicable to digital connections.
                    Think of the signal path as Bitstream-->LPCM--->Analog.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by quadman
                      Yeah.... the DENON AVR-3802 had an impressive feature set (for it's time). It was the third tier receiver in the DENON line up in '02. There was the 5802, 4802 and then the 3802 and down from there. It DOES in fact have multi channel inputs.

                      I don't understand what LPCM versus Bitstream mean.... but that's for another day I guess. Thanks everyone!
                      Didn't you pay attention to any of my long winded HDMI digital vs analog rants at that other place?

                      LPCM is basically what is on a CD and some DVDs and BD audio tracks. It is also the basic format that your audio processor in your receiver uses. Bitstream is a data stream that contains an encoded format like the various Dolby and DTS iterations. Somewhere in the chain the bitstream has to be decoded into PCM, this could be in the player or the receiver. Thus if the player is set to decode it outputs LPCM on the digital outputs or if it is not decoding it will put out the raw DD or DTS bitstream for the receiver to decode, which in turn decodes it to LPCM for processing.

                      Now after all that is done the PCM is sent to the DACs for conversion to an analog signal we all know and love. Again this can happen in the player or receiver. Now the reason many folks in your position with a nonHDMI receivers hook up the analogs is to be able to hear the new HD audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master) which for bandwith and copy protection reasons can only be transmitted digitally over HDMI. Thus for getting those new formats you need a player that can decode them and then output them as analog. Clear as mud? ::scratchchin:

                      BTW I use to have a 3801 and was always jealous of the 3802.

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                      • #12
                        BTW I use to have a 3801 and was always jealous of the 3802.
                        LOL.... and I was always jealous of the 4802's thinking that for just a few more $$$ they could have included the ubber cool ATKIS remote with the 3802 as well. The 3802 really has served me well. It seems to have a very nice processor which always gave me crystal clear sound processing for HT and really, not bad at all in two channel mode as well.
                        John W.
                        Indy

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                        • #13
                          I had a 3803 for a couple of years and loved it, as I have all my Denon products. The thing was a beast and did everything I wanted/needed......until HDMI 1.3a.

                          I gave to to my son-in-law at the beginning of 2008 and replaced it with a 3808 with 4 HDMI ports and a whole bunch of other goodies. I'll hang onto it until technology forces another upgrade.

                          The networking feature is pretty cool. I found a piece of software a guy wrote for the 3803/4803 that allows you to do all of your settings on your PC and save the setup in case you need to load it again. Very neat!
                          Ray

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