Need help with Audyssy crossover setting

[bugal1998]

So my Onkyo 906 had been setting my SHO-10 crossover between 90-100hz and my PRO-10 crossover at 70hz. I could live with those numbers. When getting these numbers my speakers had been positioned well out into the room, but I had no furniture.

Now that I have furniture I've set the speakers ~20" from the back wall and ~32" from the side wall. However, now Audyssy is setting the crossover for both the SHO's & PRO's at 150hz! I have run it multiple times with A/C off, cell phone off, and the house very quiet. Still 150hz everytime. The mic is placed at ear level as usual (level with the horn on the speakers), and above the back of the sofa (per audyssy). I'm using a tri-pod to hold the measuring mic.

Also, the sound is very noticeably thin if I try to use an 80hz crossover.

Any idea what's happening? This is unacceptable...:mad:

[Dondino]

I have an onkyo 905 and I consistently get 80-90hz from Aud. Are the speakers broken in? Does the mic have LOS to the speakers? Sounds like you might have the polarity of the speaker wires crossed? (ie out of phase)

[Fatcat]

That does sound peculiar. Whenever I've run Audyssey it will set my SHO-10s crossovers at either 90 or 100 Hz and my speaker placement sounds roughly similar to yours. Typically when Audyssey sets a crossover point for a speaker you can manually raise it without issue but it's not recommended to go lower than the preset because you will not be getting any of Audyssey's filtering at those frequencies, hence the thin sound you are getting. Out of curiosity what is the subwoofer's LPF set for?
Also, how do the speakers sound if Audyssey is turned off and you set the distances, levels and crossovers manually? If it still sounds thin or you can't get an acceptable speaker-to-subwoofer blend, it maybe a speaker issue. If it sounds decent and the blending is good, it maybe an issue with the mic. The mics have been known to get thrown out of whack by rough handling, static discharge and such. I've had to replace one on my Denon receiver. Try those out and let us know what you hear.

Best.....Carlo.

[bugal1998]

I have an onkyo 905 and I consistently get 80-90hz from Aud. Are the speakers broken in? Does the mic have LOS to the speakers? Sounds like you might have the polarity of the speaker wires crossed? (ie out of phase)

All good questions, thanks Dondino... Speakers have long been broken-in, so no issue there. The mic has LOS to the speakers, so not a problem either. Double checked all connections, and polarity is fine (also i would have noticed soundstage issues, which are absent).

[bugal1998]

That does sound peculiar. Whenever I've run Audyssey it will set my SHO-10s crossovers at either 90 or 100 Hz and my speaker placement sounds roughly similar to yours. Typically when Audyssey sets a crossover point for a speaker you can manually raise it without issue but it's not recommended to go lower than the preset because you will not be getting any of Audyssey's filtering at those frequencies, hence the thin sound you are getting. Out of curiosity what is the subwoofer's LPF set for?
Also, how do the speakers sound if Audyssey is turned off and you set the distances, levels and crossovers manually? If it still sounds thin or you can't get an acceptable speaker-to-subwoofer blend, it maybe a speaker issue. If it sounds decent and the blending is good, it maybe an issue with the mic. The mics have been known to get thrown out of whack by rough handling, static discharge and such. I've had to replace one on my Denon receiver. Try those out and let us know what you hear.

Best.....Carlo.

Thanks for the suggestions, Carlo. After reading your post I checked the sub crossover settings. LPF is set to bypass (sub1 amp). I tried different sub woofer polarity settings, but no effect. The speakers sound ok without Audyssy, but not great... still on the thin side (they've always sounded a little thin un eq'd). Broke out the omnimic and tried a manual eq, but no matter what settings I put into the receiver's manual eq it made no diference in the response curve (very odd!). So I did a factory reset, and still have the same issue.

I'm starting to think you may be correct about something with the eq being out of order (maybe not the mic though). I would suspect a speaker issue, but the left and right channels measure very nearly identically, and if I put a set of PRO's up instead of the SHO's I get the same result strange results (probably rules out a speaker issue).

Craig suggested it may be a room node, which I will try to measure this weekend.

Craig- Sorry I lost the call earlier, my phone died and then I got stuck on a call at work. Thanks for the suggestions so far, and my apologies on not calling back!

[bugal1998]

Another update: I have also tried measuring in multiple locations with audyssy, but same results again. No matter where I measure (even 20' from the speakers) it max's out the main trim levels at -12db. I know the SHO/PRO's are sensitive, but it's actually setting them too low (70 db A weighted with a db meter... normal is closer to 73 db).

[Fatcat]

Try setting the LPF setting in the reciever to it's maximum level. I believe on the Onkyo it is 120Hz and see if that helps with the measurements. I downloaded the manual for your reciever and skimmed through it but I couldn't find a mention of the "bypass" setting on the LPF that you spoke of.

Best.....Carlo.

[bugal1998]

Try setting the LPF setting in the reciever to it's maximum level. I believe on the Onkyo it is 120Hz and see if that helps with the measurements. I downloaded the manual for your reciever and skimmed through it but I couldn't find a mention of the "bypass" setting on the LPF that you spoke of.

Best.....Carlo.

Do you mean LFE (Low Frequency Effects)? If so it's already set to 120hz. The LPF (Low Pass Filter) is on the Sub amp itself and set to bypass.

[bugal1998]

So it looks like I was sent the wrong audyssey mic when I bought my receiver. I should have had the ACM1H, but I was sent the ACM1. Ordered the correct mic (which means if the old mic was bad it should sound better than ever).

[Fatcat]

Do you mean LFE (Low Frequency Effects)? If so it's already set to 120hz. The LPF (Low Pass Filter) is on the Sub amp itself and set to bypass.

Yup, LFE is what I meant. :)
The mic might be the problem then. Let us know what happens when you get the new one.

Best.....Carlo.

[bugal1998]

Here's an update on my issues.

Dondino and Fatcat, thanks again for your input, it got me thinking in new directions as to where I should be looking for answers.

Craig (per our phone conversation)-
You were correct... I have two nasty nulls at my new listening position, one at 140hz and one at 100 hz... Probably partially explains the 150hz Audyssey crossover. Though the SHO's are down 12db at 80 hz compared to the midrange frequencies pretty much no matter where or how I measure... still seems odd.

Second, I do believe that I not only have the wrong Audyssey mic for my system, I think it may also defective. It used to set my LCR channels at 72-73 db using the built-in test tones (should be 75 per Audyssey). Now, however, it's setting them at about 68db. It also sucked the life out of the subs, hence the thin sound (and the nulls).

Third, the manual EQ in my Onkyo has zero effect on the sound when measured using Omnimic. It used to work, so something may be screwy in the amp itself, and it may not be the mic after all.:confused:

I ran Audyssey again, but set the crossover to 80hz and manually adjusted all the levels using a test CD. It still doesn't sound great, but it sounds a lot better than it did.

Next up is to find out if I have any or all of the following issues:

1) Incorrect Audyssey Mic
2) Defective Audyssey Mic
3) Defective Receiver (it's still under my 5 year extended warranty). :)

I'll tackle the room nulls with acoustic treatments in the future.

[Fatcat]

Did you ever get that new mic?

Best.....Carlo.

[bugal1998]

Thanks for checking in, Fatcat. They sent the wrong mic. I need the pyramid mic and they sent a hockey puck mic. The exchange is approved, just waiting on them to process everything (again).

[bugal1998]

Finally got the new audyssey mic today and recalibrated my system. It's still setting the crossover at 150hz, but that appears to be caused by a nasty null at my listening position. Based on my outdoor frequency response charts my SHO's roll-off starting just above 90hz, so I'm setting the crossover at 100hz.

The sound, however, is greatly improved! The subs have much more punch and the thin sound is gone. It sounds like it did before I added the furniture to the room. I'm once again a happy listener...:applause: