The Audyssey plus CHT "How hard is it to set up CHT Subs" Thread.

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Good morning, guys - As promised, I am going to be setting up a pair of VS-18.1's in our theater room and doing nothing but running Audyssey to eq them.

Here is the associated equipment:

Denon 1712 receiver
Three CHT M1 Monitors
Two ACI Emerald On Walls (surrounds)
One Chase Home Theater Sub1 amp with NO eq and a hard wired subsonic filter (more details later)
Two VS-18.1's.

At 7:30 Am Saturday morning, March 3, I will start moving the subs into place, wiring it up, equing in 6 spots then running OmniMic.

This is also while having coffee and letting the dobermans in and out of the house.

The room is 25x24x8.5 feet with a 42 inch wide opening into an even larger area.

[Fatcat Find all posts View Profile Close Fatcat]

Ah yes! Sitting back, have my coffee, let the games begin!!!!:applause:

Best.....Carlo.

[sbdman Find all posts View Profile Close sbdman]

Then the wife comes in, "If your going to put that there, move the sofa over to the left and bring the table over here... no, that's not right, try this...Oh, look at that dirt that was under there, go get the vacuum cleaner. Wait the lights are now all wrong, move it up here..."

Tick, Tick, Tick

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Ok ... The two subwoofers have been slid into position. I picked the front left corner of the theater room for one and about 1/3rd the way down the sidewall for the other.

The amp was hooked up to a pair of SS-18.1's in the back of the room, so it was disconnected and hooked up to the VS-18.1's in the front of the room.

Hooking up the subwoofer amp to the speakers takes no more effort than hooking up any pair of speakers - but for making it harder, I skipped banana plugs and used bare wire into the binding posts.

Since opening this thread, not only have I wired the Sub1 amp from the Denon, and the subwoofers from the Sub1 amp, I have also run Audyssey at 7 different seating areas - one for each of our theater seats.

Now it's time to run OmniMic.

[Fatcat Find all posts View Profile Close Fatcat]

I am most curious to hear about this mysterious Sub-1 amp that you are being so cagey about.:cool:

[sbdman Find all posts View Profile Close sbdman]

Ditto - that's a big room to fill, but I'm sure the VS's are easily up to it.
plus listening impressions of the M1 Monitors...

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Here are the sweeps - The first four are the back four theater seats:

Seat 1: (my seat):



Seat 2: (The boss's seat)



Seat 3: (Kid's least favorite seat, as it is next to Dad. Teenagers!):



Seat 4: (Son's favorite seat):

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Next four seats

Seat 5: (front middle - Son's second favorite seat):



Seat 6:



Seat 7:



Seat 8: (at bar - daughter's favorite spot, as she can putz on computer while sitting on bar stool):

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Hey guys - Rather than you having to read my analysis of the 8 response curves, let's leave it to you guys.

So - anyone who wants to look at the response curves from 8 different seating positions in our room from just using a $400 receiver with its built in Audyssey Multi Eq Xt - and then give his analysis of the response curves, feel free.

I would like to add a thought provoking question: Has any other subwoofer maker offered a similar style test?

[madpoet Find all posts View Profile Close madpoet]

Craig, maybe describe the room?

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Here is a picture of the room from a few years ago.

Dimensions: 25x24x8.5 feet
Opening: 42 inch door into kitcheh which is 27x32 feet

The room used to be a 2 car garage. The floor is a subfloor of .75 inch hardwood over concrete.

The room is not treated. It's probably as tough a room to get sounding right as is any room out there.

As you look at this pic, the subs are in the front left corner and along the left sidewall, where the brown chair is now.

The screen is 10 feet diagonally, which may give an idea to just how large this room is.

[sbdman Find all posts View Profile Close sbdman]

Hey guys - Rather than you having to read my analysis of the 8 response curves, let's leave it to you guys.

So - anyone who wants to look at the response curves from 8 different seating positions in our room from just using a $400 receiver with its built in Audyssey Multi Eq Xt - and then give his analysis of the response curves, feel free.

I would like to add a thought provoking question: Has any other subwoofer maker offered a similar style test?

Interesting - XT, not XT-32, and +/-3 down to 14 Hz! In the main seat.

So, other seats may be +/-4 or more, 1. They can't tell anyway, 2. If they want to fight for the main chair, let them buy some wall treatments, and I'll let them sit there. 3. Let them re-run Audyssey when I'm not around for their seat - I'll never be able to tell, and still think I have the best seat in the house.

You did 8 measurements in less than an hour, and produced enviable (by about any standard) results, didn't have to consult a marketing agent or lawyer before posting. No wonder you're hated by the other id companies.

edit; you gonna need a deep tissue massage today?

edit2, considering with that size room (very little room gain), and using tunned ported subs, getting usable response down to 14 Hz at most seats is some serious deep response.

Question - how'd the M1's sound, and where did the crossover get set to?

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

Sbdman - Even "XT" has 128X data points for the subwoofer, as does the standard Multi EQ. The XT has 16X data points for the mains.

XT-32 takes it out to 512X data points for mains and subwoofer - which is 32 times the "calculating power" that XT offers on the speakers, thus the "32" moniker.

What I am attempting to convey to people is this: If you have a receiver that does not have at LEAST XT, and you are looking at new subwoofers, you owe it to yourself to sell the old receiver and look at the Denon and Onkyo receivers that are under $1000 and will auto-set the subwoofer for you.

The other idea I am attempting to convey: Setting up our subwoofers is not difficult.

A pair of VS-18.1's will deliver over 111 dB of clean bass at 20 Hz, outdoors, at 2 meters, using this Sub1 Amp.

They will also deliver over 119 dB, average of 20 to 80 Hz, on sine waves, at two meters, based on Dale's measurements.

If we look at CEA-2010 numbers, and adjust them for two meters, a pair will do 114.6 dB at 20 Hz and 123.8 dB average from 20 to 80 Hz.

I know of no other subwoofer on the market that can do this for under $2000 including amp, subwoofers, shipping ... etc ...

While there may be a dB or two difference in output between Dale's measurements and those done by Josh, one can get a pretty good idea how our subwoofer package stacks up by visiting www.data-bass.com

You would compare the 119 dB average @ 20 to 80 Hz to Josh's "average long term measurements", and the 123.8 db "CEA-2010" measurement to Josh's "average short term measurements" sections.

This new amp is really going to make subwoofer people happy. I have TRIED to shut this amp down, and cannot do it.

And, as Sbdman pointed out, it was 90 minutes from when I started the process until the subs were place into their current location, dialed in with Audyssey, 8 measurements were taken and the results posted here.

Our subs are not difficult to set up.

If one looks at Dale's remarks - his difficulty in setting them up was more in finding the right room location to keep his wife happy and also with the power these guys put out.

Let's face it: two 40x22x22 inch cabinets are not what most people think of as "small". :angel:

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

The M1's were set to 80 Hz. They are a terrific loudspeaker. They have that neutral sound similar to the SHO-10's, although they are set 7 dB higher by Audyssey (meaning they are 7 dB less efficient).

The M1's are our answer to something more compact, but neutral. The inspiration was the ACI Essence from a few years ago. They were purposefully designed to be crossed at 80 Hz - the 3 dB down point is 72 Hz.

While they are NOT SHO-10's, they are good enough that I have not taken them out of our upstairs theater in the month since we got them in order to put the SHO-10's back into the system.

I am anxious for people to hear them at the GTG.

[craigsub Find all posts View Profile Close craigsub]

For those wondering how hard it is to use Audyssey, here is a "how to".

1. Plug in included microphone. Receiver will automatically go to Audyssey menu.

2. Put microphone in listening position. The on screen menu will show "Start measurement", all you need to do is hit "enter" on remote.

You will now hear several "blips" for each speaker - with the subwoofer being done last.

3. After seat one is done, move microphone to seat 2, and hit enter again for "Start measurement", and seat 2 ... then 3 ... up to 8 positions with both XT an XT-32 will be done. When done, scroll down to "calculations" on screen, and hit enter.

All data points measured will be calcutated.

4. Next, on screen will show your settings - starting with speakers as configured (Left, Right, Center, Surround, Surround back, etc ... ) depending on how many speakers you have.

It will show if your speakers were set to large or small, how many subs you have, the distance to each speaker and the crossover.

5. Now you scroll to "store" and hit enter again.

The menu is REALLY simple. You do not need an electrical engineering degree to do this.

It even tells you when it's time to unplug the microphone and put it away.