Panache update - The Bad and The Good

[craigsub]

Good morning - The Panache speaker prototypes have been delivered to Danny Richie, with some interesting results.

1. The driver will need to be upgraded a bit, as the first driver is in the +/- 6 dB range for a response curve.

2. The cabinet needs to be made smaller - the current box is tuned to 69 Hz, while the driver really needs to be in a box tuned to 100 (+/- 5 Hz) ...

The GOOD news ? Thanks to Danny's work, the box will be less costly, which will allow us to get the better driver and keep the same pricing.

We also should be able to achieve a pretty potent speaker for the 100-20,000 Hz range. The driver will "hit" 20,000 Hz, too, for those who were wondering.

Over the next few days, Danny will be sending to Stephen the drawings for the appropriate enclosure, and we will proceed ASAP.

Next up - I am waiting for Danny to finish WAF-1 testing. I look for this to be excellent, as this was Danny's design from day 1. :yes:

[alphaiii]

Thanks for the update Craig!

Personally, I think it's even better that the enclosure will be smaller...(hopefully less the depth)...since I'd most likely want to use these on a desktop.

Just curious...why are you shooting for a response curve of 100Hz-20kHz when you can hit as low as 69Hz? Does this have to do with limitations of a driver that size? Can you not hit the high end extension with it tuned lower?

With a -5dB 100Hz low end, it seems these would not extend low enough for the 100Hz crossover in the Gizmo... Thoughts?

[craigsub]

Thanks for the update Craig!

Personally, I think it's even better that the enclosure will be smaller...(hopefully less the depth)...since I'd most likely want to use these on a desktop.

Just curious...why are you shooting for a response curve of 100Hz-20kHz when you can hit as low as 69Hz? Does this have to do with limitations of a driver that size? Can you not hit the high end extension with it tuned lower?

With a -5dB 100Hz low end, it seems these would not extend low enough for the 100Hz crossover in the Gizmo... Thoughts?

That wasn't -5 dB at 100 Hz, it was having the tuning frequency between 95 and 105 Hz ... we are looking for a linear response from 100 Hz and up by tuning it to 100 Hz, +/- 5 Hz. I know, we are all used to the +/- being dB ... not Hz. :huge:

The driver won't handle being tuned to 69 Hz. Realistically, a 105 Hz tuning point should give us the linearity to 100 Hz while taking a lot of load from the driver.

Making the box "shallower" is definitely what we want to do ... I have some ideas on this to run past Danny.

The reason I posted this info was to allow everyone a front row seat in terms of design.

When we get to production, there will be response curves run on the speakers (not each pair, but on a randomly selected pair) so our customers will not only see specs, you will see a measured graph.

[alphaiii]

That wasn't -5 dB at 100 Hz, it was having the tuning frequency between 95 and 105 Hz ... we are looking for a linear response from 100 Hz and up by tuning it to 100 Hz, +/- 5 Hz. I know, we are all used to the +/- being dB ... not Hz. :huge:

The driver won't handle being tuned to 69 Hz. Realistically, a 105 Hz tuning point should give us the linearity to 100 Hz while taking a lot of load from the driver.

Woops...misread that one didn't I... OK, now I understand the purpose of tuning to ~100Hz. Thanks.

Making the box "shallower" is definitely what we want to do ... I have some ideas on this to run past Danny.

The reason I posted this info was to allow everyone a front row seat in terms of design.

When we get to production, there will be response curves run on the speakers (not each pair, but on a randomly selected pair) so our customers will not only see specs, you will see a measured graph.

Awesome...looking forward to it.

[skullguise]

I agree that this will ultimately be good news. You both spelled out two good benefits:

- Small size = better placement options
- Higher frequency = easier load on the driver, maybe handle more db's

Thew only issue I potentially see is the visual matching with a sub. But if it's a desktop system, put the sub underneath. I still have a pair of the old Cambridge Soundworks 2.1 cube systems for the desktop, sound pretty good.

[billnchristy]

Yeah...you cannot do much with a 3" driver below 95-100hz regardless of what the mfrs tell you.

I built a transmission line that shoved something like 36" into a 14" cabinet just to get 80hz out of a 3" once...totally not worth it!!

[droht]

Yeah...you cannot do much with a 3" driver below 95-100hz regardless of what the mfrs tell you.

I built a transmission line that shoved something like 36" into a 14" cabinet just to get 80hz out of a 3" once...totally not worth it!!

Bill, over on Audiomagus they have JohnBlue JB3 speakers with single 3" drivers. They claim that the driver extends to 90Hz, but that when pairing it with bass reflex cabinet it goes down to 50Hz. As I recall, the 6moons reviewer also blathered on about how impressive low end is on these speakers. Does that even seem possible?

[billnchristy]

Possible...not probable! :neener:

You can certainly get something that sounds similar to bass but I just cannot believe that anyone would rave about the low-end out of a 3"!! Not sure I believe the 50hz thing either...that is pushing a little to hard...don't get me wrong, the speaker can play a 50hz tone but in relation to everything else it would be damn near inaudible.

Most of the time these things have very limited excursion too, so forcing them to play bass is pretty mean anyways...kinda like making your wife role-play Black Snake Moan with you. :jiggy:

:nervous:

[droht]

Yeah, without knowing the tech side I have still been very reluctant to buy those speakers just 'cause common sense kind of says they won't go low very well. They do have a 30 day return policy, so I may try them anyway.

[m-fine]

kinda like making your wife role-play Black Snake Moan with you. :jiggy:

Now I gotta rent it. DAMN YOU!

[rumonkey2]

Zactly what I was thinking Matt! Guess I should watch it alone first:snaggletooth:

[BruceH]

1. The driver will need to be upgraded a bit, as the first driver is in the +/- 6 dB range for a response curve.

2. The cabinet needs to be made smaller - the current box is tuned to 69 Hz, while the driver really needs to be in a box tuned to 100 (+/- 5 Hz) ...

The GOOD news ? Thanks to Danny's work, the box will be less costly, which will allow us to get the better driver and keep the same pricing.

We also should be able to achieve a pretty potent speaker for the 100-20,000 Hz range. The driver will "hit" 20,000 Hz, too, for those who were wondering.

Great stuff. I think I can still hear upwards of 19kHz so that suits me just fine. Smaller is definitely better for me. In fact, I am looking to sell my Monitor Audio GR60s in order to go with a quality sub-sat system. I don't seem to listen to music the way I used to years ago and a dedicated 2-channel system is just not practical any more. We spend more time watching movies together and music ends up being pumped out of the TV speakers or our iMac speakers:tiny:. I am really waiting to see how this turns out and hopefully can shrink the size of my future systems down.

[Patrick D]

Word of the Day

I find it amusing that the word of the day today at Dictionary.com is panache :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/

[TJEli]

Hey... Tangband makes a 2" subwoofer with a free-air res of 90hz and an xmax of 2mm ;)

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w2-1625sa.htm

-Eli

[emac]

Anyone know if the Panache is still in the works? I very well may have missed something, so I wanted to put it out to everyone. Thanks.