Improving my system's sound

[KlipschHead281]

I have a pretty good system in my view, not as high end as many but the people who have heard it have all been blown away. Including a local stereo store guy who has been around for 40 years. However, switching over to 2channel audio or music mode lacks something and my Klipsch RF-82's and RC-64 can expose the weakness in any recording.

I'd like to refrain from the "Klipsch is too bright!" comments, the RF's aren't, except when they are. :nervous: So ok, I left myself open but there are times with older CD's that just don't sound good, this includes a Diana Krall DVD-A "Look of Love" disc I bought that sounds horrible.

I put in a plain 'ol Noarah Jones CD and it sounds fantastic. Same with my Stevie Ray Vaughn and other various disc's. Forget Apple TV, sure it sounds ok, but not anything like it could. My wife says I'm too anal, perfectionist and will never be happy, which is probably true but there are times I prefer my X-LS Classics over my much more expensive RF-82's!

Anyway, the system consists of the following and for Movies I choose DTS (flavor depends on how old the disc is) and for 2ch music I choose either stereo or I forget which music mode I use but I'll add that when I get home.

Marantz SR5003 7.1 Receiver
Sony BDP-S550 Blu-Ray
Apple TV 160gig
Motorola HD DVR
Klipsch RF-82 Mains
Klipsch RC-64 Center
Klipsch RS-42 surround's
Klipsch RS-42 Rear Channel - single
2 - AV123 MFW-15 Subwoofer's - (new rev amps)

I guess it is possible I am just being too picky, my diabetes is affecting my hearing or there are times when my system just sucks! The answer could just simply be that some discs are recorded poorly and I need to deal with that, but there must be a way to improve it without throwing the discs away, heck, half my Van Halen discs would be in the garbage!

One thing I think might improve things is more power! Like the Emotiva XPA-3, it's possible the system is just lacking power but heck, these are Klipsch's, it takes nothing to run them.

[woofersus]

Maybe not so much more power, but different power. Those RF-82's are pretty efficient, no? That Marantz is a nice reciever, but recievers aren't exactly known for their refinement with 2-channel listening. I don't know if you do much multichannel music, but if you are ok with the sound for movies, maybe you could just look into a 2-channel amp for the RF-82's. Maybe even tubes, which would tame the horns a bit.

Of course, the XPA-3 could be a great upgrade, but I don't know since I don't own any Emo products and haven't heard the XPA-3, so take this with a grain of salt.

[etcarroll]

Room treatments???

[KlipschHead281]

Maybe not so much more power, but different power. Those RF-82's are pretty efficient, no? That Marantz is a nice reciever, but recievers aren't exactly known for their refinement with 2-channel listening. I don't know if you do much multichannel music, but if you are ok with the sound for movies, maybe you could just look into a 2-channel amp for the RF-82's. Maybe even tubes, which would tame the horns a bit.

Of course, the XPA-3 could be a great upgrade, but I don't know since I don't own any Emo products and haven't heard the XPA-3, so take this with a grain of salt.

Agreed whole heartedly! I am actually looking at tube amps and thought about doing exactly as you describe. I wrote my post right befor heading out to the train so forgot to mention it.

I was looking at an SP3 that's for sale in the AV123 forums and I believe he has it for sale here. Also was looking at an H34 and a few others, honestly I can't believe I forgot to mention this!

The XPA-3 has been wandering around the brain as well but the tube amp is a great idea.

[KlipschHead281]

Room treatments???

Nada and the wife would sooner kill me than let me try it. There are curtains and such but nothing that I've added.

[corndog71]

Nada and the wife would sooner kill me than let me try it. There are curtains and such but nothing that I've added.

ATS acoustics makes some really nice room treatments and for not a lot of money.

https://www.atsacoustics.com

[Cujobob]

The Klipsch do cost more, but that means little in some cases. Klipsch speakers are bright due to the diffraction and HOMs (higher order modes)...it's the case with horns, in general. In order to gain the needed efficiency that makes them so dynamic, you have to put up with the diffraction effects. Some modern waveguides have done a lot to temper this, but there are additional costs associated with it.

So what can you do?

Well I've heard Klipsch speakers sound pretty decent with Conrad Johnson equipment in a showroom...CJ stuff isn't cheap, but there's plenty of tube equipment available (for a lot less) that'd help. A tube DAC may even be enough...I highly recommend the Lite Audio DAC 60 (modded by GR Research, if possible/available).

Room treatments help any system, but let's be clear...they won't reduce the audible effects the HOMs are putting out.

If using a receiver, perhaps taming the high end a few DBs would help (just don't go crazy)

You can find better speakers for the price (or similar) to that of an SP3 or H34. Buy some used X-Statiks, Minis, or something of that nature (seen between $450-700).

Forgive me for calling your speakers bright, but I thought some explanation would help. It's not just Klipsch, it's a tradeoff of any horn/waveguide design.

[KlipschHead281]

The Klipsch do cost more, but that means little in some cases. Klipsch speakers are bright due to the diffraction and HOMs (higher order modes)...it's the case with horns, in general. In order to gain the needed efficiency that makes them so dynamic, you have to put up with the diffraction effects. Some modern waveguides have done a lot to temper this, but there are additional costs associated with it.

So what can you do?

Well I've heard Klipsch speakers sound pretty decent with Conrad Johnson equipment in a showroom...CJ stuff isn't cheap, but there's plenty of tube equipment available (for a lot less) that'd help. A tube DAC may even be enough...I highly recommend the Lite Audio DAC 60 (modded by GR Research, if possible/available).

Room treatments help any system, but let's be clear...they won't reduce the audible effects the HOMs are putting out.

If using a receiver, perhaps taming the high end a few DBs would help (just don't go crazy)

You can find better speakers for the price (or similar) to that of an SP3 or H34. Buy some used X-Statiks, Minis, or something of that nature (seen between $450-700).

Forgive me for calling your speakers bright, but I thought some explanation would help. It's not just Klipsch, it's a tradeoff of any horn/waveguide design.

No offense taken I have owned Klipsch for a very long time and have always loved them and I agree with you. However if I swapped out the mains I'd need to swap out the center and 3 rears as well and I have a decent amount of money invested in them and for HT the systems incredible and that is 80 to 90% of our listening.

So I think I'd love to entertain new speakers but I've only had these for a year. I think I'm going to continue looking for a tube amp. I did se the sale going for a set of X-statics and X-Voce center for $999.00 and $499.00 for an additional set however I can't imagine pulling the trigger on them great price or not considering whats going on over there.

So, I guess the hunt is on for a decent tube amp, suggestions?

[Skiman]

I recommend getting a good DAC. When I added a Channel Islands VDA2 (together with a CI power supply) the improvement was noticeable. Unfortunately, it can't help with SACDs or DVD Audio discs, just CDs. When playing CDs, your player then is just a transport.

http://www.ciaudio.com/

Of course, there are many other good DACs out there.

[Cujobob]

No offense taken I have owned Klipsch for a very long time and have always loved them and I agree with you. However if I swapped out the mains I'd need to swap out the center and 3 rears as well and I have a decent amount of money invested in them and for HT the systems incredible and that is 80 to 90% of our listening.

So I think I'd love to entertain new speakers but I've only had these for a year. I think I'm going to continue looking for a tube amp. I did se the sale going for a set of X-statics and X-Voce center for $999.00 and $499.00 for an additional set however I can't imagine pulling the trigger on them great price or not considering whats going on over there.

So, I guess the hunt is on for a decent tube amp, suggestions?

I've not been blown away by cheap tube integrateds, I'd suggest a cheap tube pre (hooked up to a gainclone, T-Amp, whatever) or a tube DAC. I've not hooked up a cheap tube integrated to highly efficient speakers like your Klipsch' though. My mains are 95 db sensitive as well...perhaps one day I'll hook up my H34 and check it out.

Buy an X-Statik/Voce used. Voce is about $300 used, Statik is ~$500. $800 isn't much more than you'd spend on a cheap tube amp. Obviously, shipping hurts a little...so try and look somewhat local. Plus, you'd get some back if you sell what you have.

[woofersus]

I recommend getting a good DAC. When I added a Channel Islands VDA2 (together with a CI power supply) the improvement was noticeable. Unfortunately, it can't help with SACDs or DVD Audio discs, just CDs. When playing CDs, your player then is just a transport.

http://www.ciaudio.com/

Of course, there are many other good DACs out there.

Given he wants to keep these connected to his receiver for HT use, it might be tough to do a tube DAC. I doubt his wife will want to move wires around to switch from 2-channel to TV watching. (I wouldn't, for that matter)

It seems like the easiest thing to do is run the pre-outs for the L/R channels to an amp and then adjust levels accordingly.

[Drunkonjack]

Maybe not so much more power, but different power. Those RF-82's are pretty efficient, no? That Marantz is a nice reciever, but recievers aren't exactly known for their refinement with 2-channel listening. I don't know if you do much multichannel music, but if you are ok with the sound for movies, maybe you could just look into a 2-channel amp for the RF-82's. Maybe even tubes, which would tame the horns a bit.

Of course, the XPA-3 could be a great upgrade, but I don't know since I don't own any Emo products and haven't heard the XPA-3, so take this with a grain of salt.

Excellent advise.....this is what I was going to segest but you said it batter and speelled ebverything correctly

[KlipschHead281]

Given he wants to keep these connected to his receiver for HT use, it might be tough to do a tube DAC. I doubt his wife will want to move wires around to switch from 2-channel to TV watching. (I wouldn't, for that matter)

It seems like the easiest thing to do is run the pre-outs for the L/R channels to an amp and then adjust levels accordingly.

Exactimundo.. :whoopie: I think going pre out to a tube amp will work great.

EDIT: Of course I'll still have to come up with a way to switch up the speakers but since they are all banana clips it's easy to move from receiver to amp until I get it situated.

[KlipschHead281]

Excellent advise.....this is what I was going to segest but you said it batter and speelled ebverything correctly

Bartender, I'll have what he's ^^^^ having! :chug:

[mfeust]

I would look into a demo of the Peachtree Nova for 2CH listening. It is a very good digital front end with a good DAC and HT pass though. I recently purchased one and it makes my Mini's sound the best I have heard them.