Replacing Ceiling - sanity check

[dvenardos]

My living room / dining room area has a vaulted ceiling with no attic space. I have got a leak at some point from the peak of the roof to the eaves, but have no way of knowing exactly where because I have no attic and nothing obvious from the roof side. Eventually I want to re-roof but I want to get some experience doing my garage first. The ceiling has some pretty bad seams showing through and I want to put insulation in the ceiling (believe it or not many older homes in southern california have no insulation whatsoever). So, it occurs to me, "Why not just take out the ceiling?". I can track down the leak so I can make a repair on the topside, then I can insulate and do some rewiring that I would like to do (living room is also my two channel / HT).

Is removing the ceiling a really stupid idea? :thinking:

Interior pictures:

http://picasaweb.google.com/dvenardos/CeilingDamage?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXr7oDxodLvzgE&feat=directlink

[chessman]

Umm, you gonna put it back?

[dvenardos]

Well, yes I would put up a new one when finished. :D

Umm, you gonna put it back?

[quadman]

I could likely diagnose your problem for you. I'll need some pictures though, both inside and outside if you can get them for me. I understand you can't get up on the roof, but some from the ground, of both the main roof and most especially of areas like the ridge line or valley areas above where the leaks are showing inside.... would be very helpfull. I'll PM you my email addy.

Oh, and BTW.... if you do end up pulling your ceiling (which I wouldn't recommend unless you absolutely have to), you need to be very careful how you insulate the rafter cavities of a cathedral ceiling. You could end up with problems a lot worse than you have now if done incorrectly.

[django1]

What kind of problems do you foresee Quad? There is no snow around there is there? Is that insulating for heat or cold? Eventually I plan to do something similar at my place.

Throw us some pics of the ceiling too...

[quadman]

What kind of problems do you foresee Quad? There is no snow around there is there? Is that insulating for heat or cold? Eventually I plan to do something similar at my place.

Stephen.... a lot of times I've seen homeowners (and even high end custom builders :eek:) stuff those cavities full of insulation (wanting to get the highest R value) and there is no where for anything to breathe. So moisture just sits on and gets absorbed into the insulation, rafters and roof decking. Not to mention the new ceiling. So, you end up with rotted rafters, decking, ruined insulation and drywall. Then you have a HUGE problem.... :dizzy:

As long as there are temperature differences.... you are going to get condensation. And you need to have an avenue to dry it out. You don't need excessive heat or cold or even snow. Just temperature swings. :yes:

[django1]

Well, around here we put a vapor retarder on the warm side and leave a vented airspace on the cold side. It's not rocket science although some care has to be taken. I've seen in a recent issue of Fine Homebuilding where they spray foam insulation into those types of ceilings, filling the space totally without leaving the usual airspace for venting.

It's just anything un-insulated is anathema to me...

[dvenardos]

Thanks guys, I will get pics up this weekend. Much appreciated. :yes:

I read a bunch of articles on insulating cathedral ceilings and there seems to be quite a raging debate if you should completely fill like Stephen said with blow-in or foam, or put in a vent channel. :crazy:

[ben9732]

Well, around here we put a vapor retarder on the warm side and leave a vented airspace on the cold side. It's not rocket science although some care has to be taken. I've seen in a recent issue of Fine Homebuilding where they spray foam insulation into those types of ceilings, filling the space totally without leaving the usual airspace for venting.

It's just anything un-insulated is anathema to me...

The concept is by using a closed cell foam and no remaining air pockets there is no air space to have condensation. And the closed cell foam acts as the vapor barrier. With its adhesion to all surfaces (save the shaved surface that would be against the drywall) it wont settle or pull away in time.

I'd love to be using it, but the problem with it for me is the isocyanate component. While it is fully crosslinked once it cures, I've been poisoned by it in the past when using auto paint and can't go near the stuff.

[django1]

The concept is by using a closed cell foam and no remaining air pockets there is no air space to have condensation. And the closed cell foam acts as the vapor barrier. With it adhesion to all surfaces (save the shaved surface that would be against the drywall) it wont settle or pull away in time.

Yeah I understand that part but around here the idea of the airspace is also to avoid melting too much snow off of the roof which results in icicles and ice banks, and potentially, leaks. The type of stuff happening on my roof right now, minus the leaks...

[ben9732]

Agreed for a northern climate to keep the deck chilled. My comment was for SoCal where I've read the insulation construction can be different. Although with all increase in Global Warming they might have to prepare for snow in that area.

[django1]

Hey, allow me a slight thread jack. Picking up one of these tomorrow with a 102 inch track. Suweeeet!

Same guy I got the tile saw from. He has all open box and misprint type stuff at 30 and 40 % off. I've wanted one of these for a while... Demo video

[Stereodude]

Pardon the stupid question, but how is that different from running a circular saw down a straight edge aside from costing a lot more?

[dvenardos]

That is friggin awesome. I so need one of those. :woo:

[django1]

Pardon the stupid question, but how is that different from running a circular saw down a straight edge aside from costing a lot more?

Same difference between a Lada and a Ferrari. You get from point a to point b...


Well "Zero clearance TrackSawâ„¢ cutting system delivers precise, straight, splinter-free cuts", the edge of the guide is your cut line, even at 45 degrees (so you just put the guide on your marks no math involved), you don't need to clamp it down, you can easily hook it up to a vacuum, you can plunge cut easily. It makes perfectly straight lines every time. You can also get a router attachment. a pro's view