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    This preface appears in both the “WAF-1 pair and 5.1 system - 1st impressions/comments” thread and the “Dual 10” subwoofer - 1st impressions/comments” thread. The threads are intended for customers to eventually post their 1st impressions / comments over time. We’re starting them because we (Jack & Ray) have a unique perspective – we’re the only ones who have heard/seen the products so far. Kind of like a “First Contact” in Star Trek terms.

    Let’s discuss that for a minute. We are TCA reps. This is more of a hobby than livelihood and we decided long ago that denigrating a competitor’s product in comparing it to a TCA product and/or using effusive marketing hyperbole is not the way we will do business. Besides - an individual’s ears will sort out their impression regardless of what we have to say. To add to the mix – we also have ears that are telling us things and we are sharing from that perspective. This note is a shared effort; the comments we post will be completely individual and may even be contradictory.

    Along those lines, we also wanted to avoid setting expectations that wouldn’t be met and dangle a “product-in-development” carrot for something that is months/years away. When we have something that is right at starting production, has been produced and is on the way to the warehouse or is in the warehouse – that’s when we get down to announcing and selling. On this last piece, Craig has done an outstanding job with timing of information and honesty.

    Everybody reading our impressions/comments on the products that we have heard will need to take the above information and read our input with whatever combination of filters and bias assessment works for you as you read our input. Over time, our comments will be lost in the thread as folks who buy the products post their comments.

    So, we spent 4 hours at Craig’s listening to a 5.1 System of WAF-1s and our new dual 10” subwoofer. Connection to a Denon 3808CI in a 3,700 cu. ft basement room.

    A list of what we auditioned:

    The Haunting- "Door Knock" scene (along with several other scenes)
    Titan AE - “Ice Rings” scene
    War of the Worlds – several scenes

    Diana Krall Live In Paris
    Steely Dan Two Against Nature
    Led Zeppelin Moby Dick
    Animusic 2
    Tony Bennett Live SACD
    Dire Straits Brothers in Arms
    Eagles Hell Freezes Over

    Our impressions follow below.

  • #2
    I was anticipating the opportunity to hear our first TCA subwoofer, but I had a little trepidation because we were going to audition a dual 10” driver unit it in Craig’s 3,700 cu ft room. That’s a big space. Not only was I not disappointed, I was pleasantly surprised when we put this puppy (no name yet) through it’s paces. For those of you who heard the Scamp-10 at shadowlight’s GTG in April, 2008 and were impressed with it, this unit far outperforms the Scamp-10.

    At the appropriate time, Craig will have/publish all the specs. Bluntly, I’m not a technical guy and I’ve always considered those to be interesting and use them as kind of a ball park starting point. For my , it’s always been about what kind of performance is getting to my ears and that’s where I am going to go here.

    A little about the sub:
    - High end 10” drivers. Very burly and the design, along with the amp we will be using will make it almost impossible to bottom out.
    - The enclosure is 12” W, 14” D and 26” high. The volume supports the use of 2 – 10” drivers.
    - Baltic Birch, sealed enclosure. Initially available in black or white (beautifully painted)
    - Will get down to 18Hz easily
    - Weight = only 40 lbs., making it easy to work with.
    - Plate amp (TBD – see below)

    EDIT 8/24/09:
    To help visualize the sub - two active 10" drivers are mounted on opposite) sides of the box (parallel) and firing outwards. The amp is mounted on a third side of the box (perpendicular to the drivers). Jack has posted a rendition of the sub from the top (post #19). As already mentioned in this thread, the sub can also be laid on it's side if desired.

    The drivers and the amp are mounted so the weight is below the center line of the 26" height, keeping the center of gravity low so the weight acts to stabilize the unit.

    Also, while the word "tower" is being used to describe the sub, if you pull out a tape measure and see what 26" high yields, you will get a better appreciation of the height. Pretty close to the top of a sofa arm.
    Edit 8/24/09 (later)
    Sorry it took so long to get the pictures up. :biglaugh: See post #43.

    You can see the assortment (1st post in the thread) of what we auditioned. For me, bass is about appearing correctly for music or giving me the requisite slam in a movie. When it gets there I want crisp, well-defined bass that gets there, impresses me and decays correctly. If I even sense a little bit of muddy, I move on. Finally, the unit needs to be burly enough to fill the room without needing to sweat to get there. This sub meets all of those requirements for me.

    Before we started, Craig set a nickel on edge on top of the sub. As we went through the session, he kept pointing at the nickel and grinning. It never moved or fell over, even with some of the high slam sequences. Very stable unit. The size and stability of the sub gives you a great WAF factor if you are thinking end table(s). Near field performance also supports that intent.

    For music – wonderful. Crisp, just-right delivery sharp, non-muddy edges and lets you appreciate the tones of the bass line in a jazz piece from that guy standing in the back with that really big fiddle. The rock and classic selections proved to be equally gratifying.

    Movies. Wow – the scenes from Titan AE and The Haunting were stunning. Major slam where expected. Again quick arrival, excellent articulation/definition and proper decay. The Titan AE scene tends to bottom some subs. No problem with this unit.

    Craig hadn’t dialed in with a specific EQ curve yet. Even so, it is an impressive performer. The sub goes low, but it is excellent in the important 30Hz – 60 Hz range as well. While we will spec it out at 18HZ, a smaller room will let it dig a little deeper. Also, with the sealed design, the roll off will be offset by room gain. Very nice.

    As I mentioned above, I was worried about filling the space and was surprised that we had no problem doing that. Craig had a popular $600-$700 12” sub that performs well sitting there and we did a bit of A-B with it and the dual 10”. The 10” never missed a beat and the output was more articulate. I’m not going to dwell on this, it’s just a data point. As folks use and comment on the dual 10”, their input will make comparisons much more relevant.

    Some other info. We are 95% sure this is the final product, but Craig wants to evaluate another amp. In the next couple of weeks, the amp will be finalized, the curve will be set and amps, driver, binding posts will be ordered. Concurrently, enclosures will be built. Our estimate (assumes no unforeseen “gotchas”) is that in early November, we’ll be able to sell these subs. Price – planning on $499 – delivered (in the continental US)

    I have been holding my breath since we heard the Scamp-10 all those 16 months ago for us to get Craig’s touch on a subwoofer(s) and be able to offer it/them on our site. I am really pleased with what we are bringing to market with our initial offering. The performance/price value is excellent and the wait to get here has been justified.


    • #3
      When Craig first mentioned this, as yet unnamed, subwoofer’s projected form factor, 28” tall by 12” wide and 12” deep, I was concerned. My first thought was “YIKES, a tall skinny column. I’m not sure how folks will accept that” (my tastes generally run toward the conventional or traditional). It did occur to me that those in small rooms with limited space, or pack rats like me who cram their room full of “stuff” (nature abhors a vacuum), might like the idea of a subwoofer which would occupy only one square foot of space. But, I remained skeptical and expected to be unhappy with its looks.

      So, I walked into Craig’s basement yesterday with some trepidation. First glance - it was just a prototype made of unfinished Baltic birch plywood scraps, but it was solidly constructed with smooth edges. The final product will be constructed of (non-scrap) Baltic birch plywood, and initially will be available in satin black or satin white.

      Baltic Birch is noted for strength and wear-resistance. It’s also moisture resistant and has high surface quality and integrity. In other words, it’s solid, strong, and dense (much like many who frequent internet forums :neener:). Though it certainly is not the measure of a subwoofer, we did the knock test on the dual 10” and a nearby, quality sub from a much respected competitor. The dual 10” seemed more solid and inert. Also, at the beginning of our listening, we balanced a nickel on edge on the top of the dual 10”. For hours, through music and movies, including the infamous pod scene from War of the Worlds that stinkin’ nickel just stayed on edge. Ironically, Baltic birch is also light. The subwoofer weighs a mere 40 pounds.

      I was surprised to see it wasn’t 12 inches square by 28” tall. Craig whipped out his trusty tape measure and confirmed that it was 12” x 14” x 26” tall. To my mind, that subtle change worked beautifully. The two 10” woofers were on the opposing 12” wide sides, occupying, basically, the bottom half of the 26” height. I was most pleased to find its proportions quite handsome. I think others will too. No grilles, but Craig said the delivered product would have them.

      By the way, while I’m typing this, I’m listening to/watching the Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD on 3 WAF-1s which I’ve temporarily substituted for my Rocket 850s and Bigfoot. More on the speakers later in another thread.

      I’m not going to say that much about the amplifier. Craig is investigating a second amp to see if it will work better with the driver and cabinet. But, suffice to say, this is VERY efficient driver. As it stands now (note the indefiniteness), the final amp should (indefinite again) be around 200 to 250 watts and, coupled with these drivers, still have more output than a 12” subwoofer and 90% of the output of a 15” subwoofer.

      The drivers are from a known, well respected manufacturer and are virtually the 10” version of a driver used in one of the most respected subwoofers available. As I mentioned earlier they are extremely efficient.

      OK, you want to know how it performed. I’m terrible at this kind of stuff. The subjective terminology for describing the sound of a subwoofer or speaker just confuses me. I don’t pretend to be an expert, but I was a professional musician most of my life and have a lot of experience with the sound of live music. So, off the top of my head, it kicked butt with more than enough output in a large (3700 cubic foot?) room. Tight, articulate bass in both the music and movies (mentioned above) we experienced. I’m a huge fan of the acoustic bass, and what I heard from the dual 10 had me smiling. We compared the dual 10 to that aforementioned quality, and higher priced, sub from a much respected competitor. The dual 10 was noticeably tighter and cleaner.

      Lemme see? It’s a high output, dual 10” driver, sealed design; is available in black or white, is lightweight; doesn’t take up much floor space; could conceivably be used for a small end table or plant stand; reaches down to, at least, 18Hz; and costs (tentatively) $499. Maybe we should call this the WAF sub.


      • #4
        Sounds like I need to get one (or two) of these. It sounds like an interesting design (and I mean that in a good way). Any pics? I understand if it is just way too early in the game for that. Thanks for the impressions. :thumbsup:


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jed M
          Sounds like I need to get one (or two) of these. It sounds like an interesting design (and I mean that in a good way). Any pics? I understand if it is just way too early in the game for that. Thanks for the impressions. :thumbsup:
          Pics are a ways off. As Jack mentioned, we saw the "bare baltic birch" prototytpe yesterday. We'll get them up as soon as they are available.


          • #6
            Will there be sixpack pricing like the WAFs?

            Also, no one snapped a picture?


            • #7
              Originally posted by m-fine
              Will there be sixpack pricing like the WAFs?

              Also, no one snapped a picture?
              If you need 6, we can help you! :thumbsup:


              • #8
                Jed, I wasn't really expecting much from the dual 10, but I was more than thrilled with the design and it's performance.

                No pics, Matt. Being unfinished it wasn't very pretty. However, after listening to it, I thought it was gorgeous. Soon as possible, we'll get some photos.


                • #9
                  I've never seen anything that size in a satin white before.


                  • #10
                    I need to change my undies!!

                    OK - I DO remember mention of this, but spending bulk of my time elsewhere on the forums - I didn't realize how close we are...
                    Had put sub needs on back burner w/ move & original SCAMP, ummmm, errrrrr, "misfortunes"....
                    Had planned on "duals" - so I'm thinking this gonna be the ticket (for my "HT" system) Single footprint, 1 cable, lo extension...priced just right.(What I had planned)
                    And timing almost perfect:
                    I will be settled. Toy budget will be at a peak.
                    So, yeah, take your pick - I peed myself. I crapped a brick. This "announcement" orgasmic. Either way - good thing I don't wear tighty whities! LOL :goodvibes::D


                    • #11
                      Awesome. Can't wait to read more
                      Never Argue With An idiot. They'll Lower You To Their Level And Then Beat You With Experience!


                      • #12
                        Could the 10X2 Sub (that's what I'm calling it) be placed on it's side, with one driver facing the room and the other toward the wall with the amp facing up? While I like the tower idea it just doesn't work in my space. Wide and low does though...
                        As it turns out, I was never banned. I was wrong yet again. First Obama, now this. :)


                        • #13
                          The size would be a benefit for my HT but I'm concerned about our fast growing one year old grandson. How easy would this be to tip over?



                          • #14
                            Will there be more finishes avaible so the WAF's and sub will match? Sounds exactly what I need for my musical needs :rock:


                            • #15
                              Hey.. we have a WAF-1, call the sub the HAF-2, for Husband Acceptance Factor, and the number 2 for since it has dual subs.:kewl: