10 cars that sank Detroit (According to the article)

[Hugh]

Typo: The title should say 'Sank' NOT 'Sunk'. MY Bad.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...5rLWRldHJvaXQ-

My only personal experience (My best friend Thanh's car) is with the Taurus and I think the author nailed it.

[dvenardos]

I had an Explorer for a couple of years. The quality was not anywhere near the Toyota's that I am used to driving (sorry Craig). I was a teenager in the 80's so I just don't have a high opinion of American owned car companies, although, that Geo Prizm that my ex owned was a great car, rolling out side by side with the Corollas.

[Jason]

I agree mostly with that article. Especially the part where it was talking about how GM shunned the Prius, and now look at it.

Anyway, I've always had this inner gut feeling that most American cars simply weren't up to the quality standards of many imports of competing classes. Camry/Accord vs Taurus for example.

Thankfully, it seems that recently some American cars are finally shaking off that image. The Fusion so far seems to be a great car.

Still, IF I were in the market for a new car TODAY...I'd be looking at Honda/Toyota, and maybe even Hyundai.

The kid in me wants a used Lotus Exige, though :biglaugh:

[craigsub]

Ford had a total redesign ready for the Taurus in the mid 90's. The UAW killed it off because the plant would have been too automated for their personal purposes.

I don't mind that people post liking Toyotas over Ford. It's a free country.

I do mind people doing the constant maligning management for running the companies poorly when management for years has had to fight the union every step of the way.

And yes, I am sure someone will come along with some nitwit who wrote an op-ed for some newspaper that "proves" that it was the company, not the union, that was the problem.

To those people, I have one thing to say ... look at Ford of Europe. Want to know why we never had the fuel efficent cars from Europe over here ?

Call Gettelfinger and ask that asshole why .. it's all about union dues.

Here is a 40 + MPG car we will finally have next year.





Here is the predecessor (2002-2008) that Ford Execs tried to bring here.



And here is the 2010 Taurus ...

[Jason]

Hmmm....striking designs for sure. I do feel that Ford is doing more things right (not trying to kiss up to Craig either) than the other two for the last several years. It's evident in the product they have today.

Just out of curiosity Craig...what's your thought's on the Hyundai Genesis?

[dweekie]

How many workers are employed by foreign auto makers here in the US versus the US automakers?

Hyundai definitely made a huge turnaround in recent times. It's hard to believe they shed so much of their old image so quickly. None of the vehicles listed in the article can compare to the junk Hyundai was releasing in the past :crazy:

[Jason]

Hmmm....striking designs for sure. I do feel that Ford is doing more things right (not trying to kiss up to Craig either) than the other two for the last several years. It's evident in the product they have today.

Just out of curiosity Craig...what's your thought's on the Hyundai Genesis?

Oh and I forgot to add...those new Lincolns are sexxxxy

[craigsub]

The Hyundai Genesis is a pretty car. One of my larger dealer clients owns a Chevrolet dealership, a Hyundai dealership, A Toyota dealership, and two Ford dealerships.

Most of my car purchases are more "political" in nature than anything else - I try to spread them around my clients.

I asked this client (who is also a friend - my bride and I have dinner with his bride and him an average of 3 times per month) about a Genesis for my next "road" car when my 2 year lease is up on my Flex.

He suggested letting him get for me a factory "exec" Cadillac from a GM auction. A $50,000 loaded DTS can be had for $28,000.

Here is our current stable of cars ...

Wife's everyday - Chevy Suburban (2007)
My Everyday - Ford Flex (2009)
Son's Everyday - Jeep Liberty (2009) - he just got a 100% scholarship to a local Division II university with an excellent reputation. His prize from Dad was the Jeep.

Mom's Toy - 2004 Mercedes SL-500 (sweet)
Dad's Toys - 2008 Corvette Z-06 and 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8

I drove a 911 Turbo for $145K, and preferred the Vette

The Challenger is the car that surprised me. It's one of those cars that one needs to experience. For feel, it's like a big BMW coupe inside. Roomy, tight, and everything fits. It turns out, it's built on the same basic platform as the Mercedes E Class, but it's a longer wheelbase at 116 inches.

Anyway ... back to the Genesis, I think it's a terrific vehicle. But personally, I would take a Chrysler 300 with the Hemi for less money (after incentives). Street price is appx. $6000 less for the 300.

[Ajax]

I first saw the Genesis at the 2008 Cleveland Auto Show. It was up on one of those rotating platforms which the public was not allowed to approach. I thought it nice looking and the specs sounded great, but we all know that, just like speakers, specs don't tell the whole story.

At the 2009 Cleveland Auto Show I was able to sit in, and examine, the Genesis, and I must admit that I fell in love. Beautifully appointed, really comfortable, luxurious. Being financially challenged, I asked a Hyundai rep if he could tell me the 0-60 time for the less expensive V-6 engine. He said he could - 6.2 seconds. :omg: Dats fast enough for an old guy like me. (I'm no longer in a big hurry :yes:).

Now, if someone will just drop 35k in my lap, I'll be all set. Alas, I think I'm going to have to set my sights a little lower. All my life I've been cursed with "Rockefeller desire" and a hobo's pocketbook. :(

Other cars at the auto show that caught my eye: The Toyota Venza, 2010 Ford Taurus and Fusion (both of which, like the Genesis last year, were roped off and unapproachable :mad:).

[mlbrand]

Interesting article that has some good points but is off base on some others. Yes, Detroit made some crappy cars for way too long, but as far as blaming them for focusing too much on making SUV's and pickups, that's just plain wrong. Americans wanted SUV's and trucks, and they were high margin vehicles, so Detroit would have been stupid to not make them. AND, if gas stays under or around $2/gallon for an extended time, we will want them again. That probably won't happen, because if gas prices don't go up, fuel taxes, etc. will. We will force the lower and middle classes into smaller, more fuel efficient cars one way or another.

The car rankings were personally pretty funny for me, as when I married my wife in '84 she had a bright yellow Pinto. It was surprisingly reliable, but it was shot before it reached 75,000 miles.

Our best family car we ever had (and still do) is our '99 Suburban. I bought this car new when we were starting to haul our boys around for family vacations, sports, and Boy Scouts. That car has taken us to Yellowstone (2x) the Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, back and forth from Oklahoma to Wisconsin and Missouri on many family trips, ski trips, LOTS of Boy Scout camps with a full load of boys and pulling a trailer, and a lot of fishing trips pulling my boat. It never failed us, and was always comfortable, handles great (for its size), and got 18 mpg on the highway. We had to do some minor work on it around 125k, but it's still going strong, with my youngest son driving it as a "trainer" car. (he likes it) It feels like part of the family, and I will miss it when it's gone.

My oldest son who is a freshman in college has a 2008 Toyota Corolla SE I bought him new last year. He has some decent scholarships too. The SE is the "sportier" version with spoilers, etc. In dark charcoal grey it's a pretty decent looking little car, and gets 40 mpg. Corollas are awsome little cars for the money, Detroit needs to copy the crap out of this car.

My wifes daily driving car is a 2004 Toyota Camry. A great, practical car as everyone knows. We like it, but today I would look hard at a Chevy Malibu or a Ford Focus/Edge for a car like this.

Last but not least, Craig's buddy is right, big fuel thirsty luxury cars and SUV's are dirt cheap right now. I just bought an '04 Cadillac Escalade with 25,000 miles, one previous owner and very clean, for 21k. The sticker price on it is 58k. This car is my toy, and occasional family long trip car. We really won't drive it very much, so mpg wasn't a big deal to me. The important part is that you feel like the king of the road driving an Escalade. This is one game where Japan has seldom if ever been able to beat Detroit, pure V-8 muscle and sex appeal. :yes:

[Hugh]

By the way, Thanh's Taurus was a very good and solid car overall.

I of course never did work for Ford so I really can't say for sure why they let an excellent product to become a so-so and forgetful item. :(

On to the Hyundai Genesis, I test drove it a few months back and my personal opinion after the test drive was it's ok, not as great as most car magazines led to believe.

[Hugh]

Craig,

Seriously?

Wow. :)

I'd love to get one for my Boss but how about reliability?

Thanks,

He suggested letting him get for me a factory "exec" Cadillac from a GM auction. A $50,000 loaded DTS can be had for $28,000.

[ben9732]

All my life I've been cursed with "Rockefeller desire" and a hobo's pocketbook. :(

Sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll will waste you everytime. :biglaugh:

[Ajax]

On to the Hyundai Genesis, I test drove it a few months back and my personal opinion after the test drive was it's ok, not as great as most car magazines led to believe.

Ya gotta understand, Hugh. I'm driving a 16 year old Toyota Camry (which, by the way, has been a terrific, reliable car). I'm reasonably certain that I would consider the Genesis a major step up. What am I saying????? Almost any new, well respected, car would be a major step up. :yes:

Sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll will waste you everytime. :biglaugh:

LOL! Ain't it the truth. But a life of dissipation is soooooooooo much fun! :jiggy:

[craigsub]

Craig,

Seriously?

Wow. :)

I'd love to get one for my Boss but how about reliability?

Thanks,

The DTS is really reliable ... and it is a great highway cruiser. Once you experience air conditioned seats, anything less is hard to take. :yes:

Of course, I don't know what you could get one for there ... the guys I know are pretty astute at "hawking" the auctions.