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PART #1 OF 3 (split post due to 10,000 character length limit)
Purpose of this long message, is for advice and opinions regarding the purchase of a new subwoofer that would fit my own requirements, listed below. Price point $500.00 - $700.00 is the target, I could be swayed with a gun to my head to go as high as $999.00, which seems crazy, but lets leave the door to the asylum open!
I have followed Tweak City forum owner and member poster on other sites, "Craigsub", originally learned about him and his website from the AVS forum, and wanted to start by thanking him and his buddies for the now famous "sub list" from last year. What some critics fail to realize is the list is a great starting point for those like me that start with google when first learning about subs. I was enlightened by learning about all the "other" companies offerings, that I had never heard of. This jump started my homework, granted my head has been spinning for a week. I am also aware of the time consuming process of making notes, and putting them into a readable format, this cannot be overlooked for the shear effort in time and labor.
Before reading about the "CraigSub list", I was simply going to buy the Polk DSW MicroPro 1000 8" driver for $500.00 at a local store, but thankfully for me it has not been in stock for some time. I called Polk tech support to ask them how this 1200-watt RMS amp and small speaker compared to the same price Polk DSW PRO 500, with it's 10" driver and 200-watt amp. Well, I got no real answer in the end, and was more confused then ever. I thought the idea of a sub with a remote control would make it easier for me to reduce the "thump" in consideration of my neighbors at night. The Onkyo has a "night mode", but it does NOT apply to music playback. That lead me to AVS, then "Craigsub" and the sub-list review, more reading and research, and now here.
I'll apologize in advance for a long post, but I wanted to do my homework, and take my time in writing a detailed message before asking for opinions and advice. I have read as much as I could, both in Tweak City forums as well as in AVS forums, and many, now "older" reviews of the products in my budget. In the end, there are a few technical issues and questions I can't resolve without some wise guidance from the "pros". While I have learned a lot from others requests for advice on subs in the same price point, their specific needs are always a bit different then mine (more MUSIC then HT sources), so the advice, solutions, and brand models are usually a bit different then for my needs. I know it's a lot to ask, and I'm asking a lot of questions for advice, but my goal is to buy via mail order and to hopefully get my FIRST "true sub", and most likely my LAST, I'm no kid anymore. The challenge of course is asking the owners of much higher quality subs and speakers and systems to help one choose less expensive gear that can get closer to the gear they have. I'm not too dumb and realize there are going to be lots of trade offs when buying by budget alone, but with some help, it's possible to get decent gear that will sound good and hopefully last a long time. And perhaps all this will help the next buyer that comes along with similar needs.
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PREVIOUS 2.1 STEREO SYSTEM (components now over 20 years old being retired, or used as satellite speakers for now):
Main Speakers: Polk 5 Jrs (Bookshelf Speakers)
Low Freq Speaker: Polk LF-14 (NOT a sub, bought from a friend, connected to the L/R speaker connections)
AMP: SoundCraftsman PM 840, 410 watt RMS, 300 watt per channel x 2
PreAmp: SoundCraftsman DX-4000
EQ: 10 channel SoundCraftsman SE 450
Tuner: Carver
With decent research and shopping at the time, got over 20 years of service out of those "components", NO crossover settings etc. very simple 2.1 system. But well overdue, now it's time for all new stuff. So here is the beginning of new system, doing it one "painful" step at a time.
MY NEW SYSTEM (so far as of 2-23-09):
Main Speakers: OHM Micro Walsh "Main Wall". These are the smallest he makes at 12"x12"x12". They will both sit on a shelf, suspended by 3 chains four feet down from my 10 foot ceiling. This puts the shelf at about SIX feet from the floor of the room. I have FOUR months to listen/test these Main speakers from OHM. Cost $1,000.00/pair. Will be picking them up in one week.
AVR/RECEIVER: Onkyo AVR 906 (cost $1,500.00) 145 watts per channel X 7 channels.
So now I need an affordable SUBWOOFER that will work with my requirements, and hence this request for advice and opinions.
================================================== =================================
MY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS:
1) I listen mostly to MUSIC 80/20, but now that I have started with a new 7.1 AVR receiver, I plan on using my previous main speakers the Polk 5 jr's as my rear L/R channels and some Definitive Technology ProMonitor 80 Mk2 speakers for the L/R middle channels. This will tide me over until I buy new speakers for the middle and rear channels for movie playback. I still have to shop for an affordable "MIDDLE" speaker for voices etc. But the SUBWOOFER, seems the next most important speaker as I like good, clean bass. Now and then I play my own electric bass instrument, so I do like bass.
That said, I am after reference monitor type performance for MUSIC, as I would rather compromise HT "MOVIE" bass effects. On average I listen to music 80% of the time, playing all the time when I am home. CD's, MP3, AAC, FLAC, Internet streaming radio, streaming iTunes library from my own hard drives, etc. Mostly Jazz, then Funk and Rock, and at times Classical.
20% of the time, would be HT style movie playback, and I would not be as picky with bass SFX sounds. A tank is a tank, an explosion is BANG, granted I won't be able to knock anyone off their seats, but that is a given trade off for me.
2) I live in an apartment building with neighbors above, below and to the sides of my unit. Volume during the day when I am home and weekends can go HIGHER, as well as subwoofer levels, but overall I can't BLAST the low freqs., as many can that live in their own homes or basement home theaters. I think this goes nicely with my wishes for better pure/clean sub/bass for music. Having a Sub that is audible and sounds good at LOW volumes would also be a huge plus, as often I have to work during daytime hours and still like to listen to music during the night time hours when others in my building are asleep and I keep the volume levels low, and prefer NOT to use headphones or earbuds.
3) Size of sub IS somewhat important in apartment setting. Lucky for me I'm not interested in blasting movie SFX anyways, so most of the units I have researched are NOT too large in size for music fidelity. I'm sure they all will be okay for "tanks", and "explosions" when I watch a movie 20% of the time.
4) Budget, most of us have one. I am trying not to spend more then 50% of the price of my main speakers, meaning the $500.00 - $700.00 range for a subwoofer. I have some flexibility, but refuse to go above $1000.00, as I don't think it would be worth it for my own apartment space.
5) I need to purchase a subwoofer NOW, can't wait weeks or months for vaporware items. This "shopping" part is all on me, and is what I'm pretty good at. Knowing what to get in the sub world, is why I'm asking for HELP! I can't buy and ship back all the potential candidates, hopefully with all your help I can do this once, and then report back how it goes and sounds.
6) Not interested in buying from any companies that may not be in business before the limited warranty runs out. Polk, while no longer on my list, at least has been around and does not appear to be going anywhere soon.
7) No real interest in buying "used" at this price point. Never know how the sub was treated by a "stranger". Trying to find "old stock" and B-Stock seems to lead to far too many dead ends and I've narrowed down my search so far to a select few brands anyways.
PART #2 OF 3 MY ROOM SPECS AND MORE.... BELOW
Purpose of this long message, is for advice and opinions regarding the purchase of a new subwoofer that would fit my own requirements, listed below. Price point $500.00 - $700.00 is the target, I could be swayed with a gun to my head to go as high as $999.00, which seems crazy, but lets leave the door to the asylum open!
I have followed Tweak City forum owner and member poster on other sites, "Craigsub", originally learned about him and his website from the AVS forum, and wanted to start by thanking him and his buddies for the now famous "sub list" from last year. What some critics fail to realize is the list is a great starting point for those like me that start with google when first learning about subs. I was enlightened by learning about all the "other" companies offerings, that I had never heard of. This jump started my homework, granted my head has been spinning for a week. I am also aware of the time consuming process of making notes, and putting them into a readable format, this cannot be overlooked for the shear effort in time and labor.
Before reading about the "CraigSub list", I was simply going to buy the Polk DSW MicroPro 1000 8" driver for $500.00 at a local store, but thankfully for me it has not been in stock for some time. I called Polk tech support to ask them how this 1200-watt RMS amp and small speaker compared to the same price Polk DSW PRO 500, with it's 10" driver and 200-watt amp. Well, I got no real answer in the end, and was more confused then ever. I thought the idea of a sub with a remote control would make it easier for me to reduce the "thump" in consideration of my neighbors at night. The Onkyo has a "night mode", but it does NOT apply to music playback. That lead me to AVS, then "Craigsub" and the sub-list review, more reading and research, and now here.
I'll apologize in advance for a long post, but I wanted to do my homework, and take my time in writing a detailed message before asking for opinions and advice. I have read as much as I could, both in Tweak City forums as well as in AVS forums, and many, now "older" reviews of the products in my budget. In the end, there are a few technical issues and questions I can't resolve without some wise guidance from the "pros". While I have learned a lot from others requests for advice on subs in the same price point, their specific needs are always a bit different then mine (more MUSIC then HT sources), so the advice, solutions, and brand models are usually a bit different then for my needs. I know it's a lot to ask, and I'm asking a lot of questions for advice, but my goal is to buy via mail order and to hopefully get my FIRST "true sub", and most likely my LAST, I'm no kid anymore. The challenge of course is asking the owners of much higher quality subs and speakers and systems to help one choose less expensive gear that can get closer to the gear they have. I'm not too dumb and realize there are going to be lots of trade offs when buying by budget alone, but with some help, it's possible to get decent gear that will sound good and hopefully last a long time. And perhaps all this will help the next buyer that comes along with similar needs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREVIOUS 2.1 STEREO SYSTEM (components now over 20 years old being retired, or used as satellite speakers for now):
Main Speakers: Polk 5 Jrs (Bookshelf Speakers)
Low Freq Speaker: Polk LF-14 (NOT a sub, bought from a friend, connected to the L/R speaker connections)
AMP: SoundCraftsman PM 840, 410 watt RMS, 300 watt per channel x 2
PreAmp: SoundCraftsman DX-4000
EQ: 10 channel SoundCraftsman SE 450
Tuner: Carver
With decent research and shopping at the time, got over 20 years of service out of those "components", NO crossover settings etc. very simple 2.1 system. But well overdue, now it's time for all new stuff. So here is the beginning of new system, doing it one "painful" step at a time.
MY NEW SYSTEM (so far as of 2-23-09):
Main Speakers: OHM Micro Walsh "Main Wall". These are the smallest he makes at 12"x12"x12". They will both sit on a shelf, suspended by 3 chains four feet down from my 10 foot ceiling. This puts the shelf at about SIX feet from the floor of the room. I have FOUR months to listen/test these Main speakers from OHM. Cost $1,000.00/pair. Will be picking them up in one week.
AVR/RECEIVER: Onkyo AVR 906 (cost $1,500.00) 145 watts per channel X 7 channels.
So now I need an affordable SUBWOOFER that will work with my requirements, and hence this request for advice and opinions.
================================================== =================================
MY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS:
1) I listen mostly to MUSIC 80/20, but now that I have started with a new 7.1 AVR receiver, I plan on using my previous main speakers the Polk 5 jr's as my rear L/R channels and some Definitive Technology ProMonitor 80 Mk2 speakers for the L/R middle channels. This will tide me over until I buy new speakers for the middle and rear channels for movie playback. I still have to shop for an affordable "MIDDLE" speaker for voices etc. But the SUBWOOFER, seems the next most important speaker as I like good, clean bass. Now and then I play my own electric bass instrument, so I do like bass.
That said, I am after reference monitor type performance for MUSIC, as I would rather compromise HT "MOVIE" bass effects. On average I listen to music 80% of the time, playing all the time when I am home. CD's, MP3, AAC, FLAC, Internet streaming radio, streaming iTunes library from my own hard drives, etc. Mostly Jazz, then Funk and Rock, and at times Classical.
20% of the time, would be HT style movie playback, and I would not be as picky with bass SFX sounds. A tank is a tank, an explosion is BANG, granted I won't be able to knock anyone off their seats, but that is a given trade off for me.
2) I live in an apartment building with neighbors above, below and to the sides of my unit. Volume during the day when I am home and weekends can go HIGHER, as well as subwoofer levels, but overall I can't BLAST the low freqs., as many can that live in their own homes or basement home theaters. I think this goes nicely with my wishes for better pure/clean sub/bass for music. Having a Sub that is audible and sounds good at LOW volumes would also be a huge plus, as often I have to work during daytime hours and still like to listen to music during the night time hours when others in my building are asleep and I keep the volume levels low, and prefer NOT to use headphones or earbuds.
3) Size of sub IS somewhat important in apartment setting. Lucky for me I'm not interested in blasting movie SFX anyways, so most of the units I have researched are NOT too large in size for music fidelity. I'm sure they all will be okay for "tanks", and "explosions" when I watch a movie 20% of the time.
4) Budget, most of us have one. I am trying not to spend more then 50% of the price of my main speakers, meaning the $500.00 - $700.00 range for a subwoofer. I have some flexibility, but refuse to go above $1000.00, as I don't think it would be worth it for my own apartment space.
5) I need to purchase a subwoofer NOW, can't wait weeks or months for vaporware items. This "shopping" part is all on me, and is what I'm pretty good at. Knowing what to get in the sub world, is why I'm asking for HELP! I can't buy and ship back all the potential candidates, hopefully with all your help I can do this once, and then report back how it goes and sounds.
6) Not interested in buying from any companies that may not be in business before the limited warranty runs out. Polk, while no longer on my list, at least has been around and does not appear to be going anywhere soon.
7) No real interest in buying "used" at this price point. Never know how the sub was treated by a "stranger". Trying to find "old stock" and B-Stock seems to lead to far too many dead ends and I've narrowed down my search so far to a select few brands anyways.
PART #2 OF 3 MY ROOM SPECS AND MORE.... BELOW
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