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2020 subwoofer thread [updated 1/20]

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  • Hi all,
    For those with TAI-300s, has anyone tried using the low-level outputs? The original Basis 300 incorporated an 80-Hz high-pass filter (presumably via some sort of crossover filtering, perhaps akin to an FMOD, and not electronics-based). I'd like to use it to cut the low frequencies being sent to my active L/R speakers, but I don't have adequate cabling at the moment, and I don't want to invest in it if the high-pass filter isn't beneficial.

    From the Basis 300 manual:

    Low Level High Pass Outputs
    These outputs provide the signal that goes to the power
    amplifier that drives the main speakers in the system.
    The signal from these outputs is high pass filtered
    (80 Hz, 12 dB/octave) to remove bass sounds.

    Comment


    • Well. Sub number two arrived yesterday. I heard something rolling around inside when I picked up the box however
      the exterior of this box was in better shape than the first one. I took the amp off of the back to see what was loose inside.

      I can’t imagine what fedex/ups has done to cause this. However I’m very happy I purchased from Jon/Chane as he has been amazing during this.

      I can’t say that I’m not ultra disappointed, but such is life!

      onto the carnage pictures

      Comment


      • Yeah, that's four foot toss, HO. Thanks shipper driver truck guy for your courteous professionalism.

        Again: Guys, let us take care of this offline, okay?

        By the way, that's a truly remarkable case. Look closely. What you see there is a shock so hard that the ceramic ring magnet itself split in two, clean across its diameter. You would have to take a hammer and chisel to the ceramic ring to fracture a motor that way. The top plate is still attached to the driver basket while the bottom half of what's left of the magnet is lose in the cabinet.

        I have never, ever seen that.

        PS: I sent David that link. He may be in shock now - he's never seen this in probably a hundred thousand speakers. He threw a packaged sub out the third story window to test it and the motor didn't fracture. Who the heck knows how this happens. Not us.

        Comment


        • Fedex might be building up a bad reputation online. I saw youtube video from a few days ago of a stereo system component unpacking and the customer had the same complaint. Maybe the employees are revolting for finally having to work weekends.

          Comment


          • So thankful that my A series arrived in perfect shape to Canada back in October 2018. 7 speakers, all good.
            I've had quite a few things shipped from the US over the years, and I'm shocked by that sub damage.
            It almost seems to the point of intentional, especially considering the outside of the second box wasn't visually terrible.
            That would have taken a hell of a drop to inflict that.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by haulin oats View Post
              Well. Sub number two arrived yesterday. I heard something rolling around inside when I picked up the box however
              the exterior of this box was in better shape than the first one. I took the amp off of the back to see what was loose inside.

              I can’t imagine what fedex/ups has done to cause this. However I’m very happy I purchased from Jon/Chane as he has been amazing during this.

              I can’t say that I’m not ultra disappointed, but such is life!

              onto the carnage pictures
              Wow. In all my years of pro sound, I've never seen that.

              I don't know how many G's would be required to accomplish that feat, but I'm thinking 20+ G's. More than a single 4ft drop.

              I've seen pro cabs take a teeny tiny tumble from a head height loading dock to the truck (that wasn't there, Gary you f*kking idiot). So, probably 6ft+. I remember that the big EAW cabs, that were heavily braced Baltic birch, functionally shattered. But the woofers and Horn/CD were totally fine. We transplanted drivers and crossover to the new cab.

              I've had better luck with UPS, but this is next level!!! 😳😳

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kabin View Post
                Fedex might be building up a bad reputation online. I saw youtube video from a few days ago of a stereo system component unpacking and the customer had the same complaint. Maybe the employees are revolting for finally having to work weekends.
                That may explain things. We were starting to wonder how to respond to four cases where a customer experienced two consecutive damage claims while dozens and dozens and dozens of customers were fine. We began to suspect some routes were just compromised. You can always make the argument that four solid inches of material will cushion a product from anything, but when a heavy ring of cast ceramic ferrite is sheared right through its 6" long dimension, you know the shock was absolutely fierce.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chane M&C View Post

                  That may explain things. We were starting to wonder how to respond to four cases where a customer experienced two consecutive damage claims while dozens and dozens and dozens of customers were fine. We began to suspect some routes were just compromised. You can always make the argument that four solid inches of material will cushion a product from anything, but when a heavy ring of cast ceramic ferrite is sheared right through its 6" long dimension, you know the shock was absolutely fierce.
                  Is Fedex going to compensate for the damage? I hope they are..

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kabin View Post
                    Fedex might be building up a bad reputation online. I saw youtube video from a few days ago of a stereo system component unpacking and the customer had the same complaint. Maybe the employees are revolting for finally having to work weekends.
                    You might be on to something.
                    A couple of the home theater pages I follow have had multiple reports of heavily damaged subwoofers all within the past couple of weeks.

                    Comment


                    • Subwoofer Shootout of the Chane TAI 190 subwoofer:

                      Some of the features and controls of the Chane TAI 190 subwoofer:: a level control to adjust the level of bass volume. Plus it has inputs from an amplifier (bypassing the internal amplifier) plus two different inputs: one low level RCA jack without crossover (this is the one I used) and another RCA jack with an adjustable frequency crossover using a control just above it. It also detects sound audio from the preamp and automatically turns on when it detects sound and turns off when it detects no sound after a certain time period.

                      My room is 12 ft by 13 x 8 ft high, which is considered small. I have used the Elac 3010 subwoofer for about a year now. It is a 10-in powered subwoofer with a Bluetooth smartphone application for control. I was using the Emotiva Emo Q (from my 7 channel preamp/processor) which automates the frequency response setup of the speakers using static noise and a microphone. All of the speakers except for the subwoofer were set to small with a crossover of 80 Hertz.

                      I was amazed at the quickness, accuracy, and low bass output compared to the Elac. Bass drum hits had a quickness and accuracy as I was listening to Led Zeppelin first album and the Eagles. Saint Saens symphony number 3, which has a very deep organ, had bass notes you could feel. In the Jazz area, Boney James Sweet Thing has a very deep bass guitar and is deeper than most other jazz sax albums. And the TAI 190 accurately reproduced the quickness of the bass attack and in great quantity. Even my symphonies and concertos have enhanced rich bass, with no boominess at all.

                      Overall with the TAI 190 being a 10, I would say the Elac was about a seven. 10 being the highest rating. The Elac 3030 sells for $597. I am certainly completely satisfied with the TAI 190. I also felt like the power of the built in subwoofer amplifier of the TAI 190 was quite adequate in my smaller room. And I would think that it would be enough for medium size rooms even at fairly loud levels.

                      I did not hear any clipping whatsoever at rock concert levels. My girlfriend was startled by the deep bass of rolling thunder from a TV show thunderstorm. The thunder felt and sounded real to me. When I started using the Elac subwoofer, I thought is was ok, not having anything to compare it to.. All in all, I am rather amazed at the quality and low price of the TAI 190 subwoofer.

                      Comment


                      • Here's a quick frequency response graph of my TAI-300 in my living room (corner loaded), measured at MLP which is 14.5 ft away from the sub, without Audyssey (blue) and with Audyssey (red). As you can see, Audyssey helps smooth it out nicely. The room is about 21' by 14' with 9' ceilings, open to a small kitchen and a hallway.




                        Here is a comparison of relative max output against my old Premier Acoustic PA-120 (red line). Level knobs on both subs were set to max, while the receiver was kept at the same master volume, Audyssey off.



                        The PA-120 is a cheap sub with a 12" driver and only a 200W amp, but has a larger and heavier cabinet (56 lbs). As you can see, its max output is about 2.5 dB higher than the TAI-300. But from a musicality standpoint, the TAI-300 is the clear winner.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kabin View Post
                          A few weeks back I received a pallet delivery and the delivery folks still found a way to crush the box. Gotta wonder if or when they ever start being held accountable.
                          Unless the package delivery industry gets some competition - or shippers and customers start making a lot more noise then they are now - it's unlikely there will ever be accountability. If your only competition is equally inept there's no incentive to do things correctly.


                          Originally posted by kabin View Post
                          I documented it on the signed slip but it was all for naught as my receipt had no carbon copy and the delivery driver said he would just cross it out as he didn't want to confuse his office administrators. For the price of their service they should be handling it with kid gloves.
                          Classy move, clearly shows disdain for the customer. Worse part is if you call and ask for someone in authority they probably won't care just as much.


                          Originally posted by kabin View Post
                          Fedex might be building up a bad reputation online.
                          I think we're well past "might" at this point, we're fast approaching legendary status. And I don't mean legendary in the famous manner, I mean infamous.


                          Originally posted by wkrpic View Post
                          Is Fedex going to compensate for the damage? I hope they are.
                          Very doubtful, they seemingly always find a way to weasel out of their responsibilities. To compensate shippers raise their price to cover all the breakage and the customer ends up paying for it. FedEx/UPS get total impunity not only for the damage they cause but for the extra cost and burden placed on the industry. Sometimes I wonder if it's a game for them. People like Jon are stuck between a rock and a hard place I'm afraid.

                          If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by theJman View Post
                            Unless the package delivery industry gets some competition - .
                            Yeah, unlikely because barriers to entry are quite high. I suppose Amazon is getting close - they've got the resources and network to pull it off, and they'll be their own biggest customer.

                            Comment


                            • Yes, Amazon is relatively customer-centric. They send a regular email asking for feedback on my last prime delivery. Of course Amazon is only in it for their own biz for now but who knows what next for them once they get drones and automated delivery vehicle dialed-in. Other than that the competition is probably too big to fail.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by e-2-m View Post
                                Here's a quick frequency response graph of my TAI-300 in my living room (corner loaded), measured at MLP which is 14.5 ft away from the sub, without Audyssey (blue) and with Audyssey (red). As you can see, Audyssey helps smooth it out nicely. The room is about 21' by 14' with 9' ceilings, open to a small kitchen and a hallway.




                                Here is a comparison of relative max output against my old Premier Acoustic PA-120 (red line). Level knobs on both subs were set to max, while the receiver was kept at the same master volume, Audyssey off.



                                The PA-120 is a cheap sub with a 12" driver and only a 200W amp, but has a larger and heavier cabinet (56 lbs). As you can see, its max output is about 2.5 dB higher than the TAI-300. But from a musicality standpoint, the TAI-300 is the clear winner.
                                You have a very friendly room with no significant nulls whether Audyssey was on or off. Is that one sweep at the main listening position, no freq response filtering?

                                Comment

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