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2020 subwoofer thread [updated 1/20]

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  • Originally posted by alphaiii View Post
    Debating 300 vs 550

    So 550 gets more amp headroom, 1 Hz lower F6 (negligible), and 2 dB more at 20 Hz.

    It also sounds from Jon's description that the 300 is slightly tilted down in response from 80Hz to tuning, where as the 550 is flatter between tuning frequency and 80 Hz, so it has more ouput right about tuning than the 300 even before additional ouput due to stronger amp.

    Is that all correct?

    Any concern of driver overexcursion with the 550W amp?
    All correct. The 190 and 300, like a lot of subs that aren't enormous and have the luxury of full acoustical response development, has a bit of classic EBS reflex tuning, meaning the response tapers a little heading down to final cutoff. All also have a lift EQ just above cutoff to compensate some of this, but the 550 also includes a mild dip EQ'd into the signal in the middle of the passband. This gives the 550 a theoretically flatter response, although I'd also lowpass it at 80Hz. I'd lowpass all three at 80Hz, actually. And as noted, room response swamps a lot of this anyway so if you're a stickler for dead-even responses, use room EQ.

    There's always a risk of over-excursion (and/or clipping) so as noted drive any speaker with some care and if you see (or hear) signs of overdoing the woofer, stop there and lower the level.

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    • For anyone following along, here's a primer on getting a basically sound subwoofer setup. This is a rehash of what the THX standard basically calls for, which is acoustically knitting together a speaker above 80Hz and a subwoofer below 80Hz. This piece deals with the underlying, primary transfer function between the two halves of the system, and sets them up like a speaker designer would. Since joining any two drivers is part of speaker design, these rules govern the procedure.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chane M&C View Post
        There's always a risk of over-excursion (and/or clipping) so as noted drive any speaker with some care and if you see (or hear) signs of overdoing the woofer, stop there and lower the level.
        Thanks for the repsonse.

        Given that the 300 and 550 have the same driver, box, tuning... but different amp W and EQ...

        Is it fair to say the 300 is an amp limited design, but the 550 is driver limited?

        As in, more likely to clip the amp with the 300 vs drive the woofer into overexcursion with the 550?

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        • Originally posted by alphaiii View Post
          Given that the 300 and 550 have the same driver, box, tuning... but different amp W and EQ...

          Is it fair to say the 300 is an amp limited design, but the 550 is driver limited?
          Theoretically? It's generally true that 1) woofers are far more excursion-limited in some areas of their operating ranges than they are thermally limited, and 2) the larger amp inherently pushes that limit, wherever it lies. To be absolutely sure - which in the context of a small-sized sub in the sub-$400 class is virtually never defined - we'd also have to take into effect the effects of thermal heating, if any, motor field fringing, suspension linearity and limiting, and then the two areas where excursions are prone to excesses in a reflex system, the range below F3 and another smaller range above it.

          It gets complicated, and in a practical system and use, includes program material. Since the driver in the majority of bass speakers, subwoofer and full range, run out of excursion before they thermally limit, the premise that the larger amplifier does this more is not established without looking into those variables.

          A while back a major brand produced 1,000 pieces of a 1,000 watt active subwoofer not much different than the standard 10-12" consumer fare. The word came down that the product just had to have a thousand watts even though it was clear the acoustical system couldn't absorb that much power at all points on the speaker's bandwidth. Fifteen, or 1.5% of those speakers were returned due to one failure or another.

          The take-away is fairly clear: Keep an eye on the levels you expect out of any small sub - or really any sub - which these are. The 300 woofer has more in it to give but just where any of the three will compress is no more unique here than the average. The only way to calibrate all limits is to...calibrate all limits. Destructive testing, compression testing, and then a DSP system to run it all with two or more software limiters involved.

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          • Sorry if this has been discussed previously but are there dimensions available for both the tai-190 and 300? Looking to place it in an area with limited space.

            Also I'm thinking a wireless kit for this is probably not recommended. But if I had to get one, what's the recommended kit?

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            • Originally posted by Pocari View Post
              Sorry if this has been discussed previously but are there dimensions available for both the tai-190 and 300? Looking to place it in an area with limited space.​
              The 190 is a 355mm cube and the 300/550 are 380mm cubes. Add about 25mm for the grilles, if you use them.

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              • I always like to have more watts so I don't need to overdrive an amplifier. Having said that, I don't plan to get anywhere near over driving mine but just in case what's the best early warning for driver excursion on the 550 TAI? Amplitude clipping, port chuffing?

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                • Originally posted by kabin View Post
                  I always like to have more watts so I don't need to overdrive an amplifier. Having said that, I don't plan to get anywhere near over driving mine but just in case what's the best early warning for driver excursion on the 550 TAI? Amplitude clipping, port chuffing?
                  I agree: the sound of a cheap amp letting go is intolerable. I'd take the headroom.

                  What's the limiter here? Probably the port. From what I see in my modeling the woofer and amp are close together right behind it.

                  I'd still recommend discretion when using any speaker, and once you get up to a good inch or 30mm in peak to peak cone travel remember that if you wanted to make much more bass than that you'd probably want to be in the $1000 class or more.

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                  • When do they start shipping?

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                    • Originally posted by haulin oats View Post
                      When do they start shipping?
                      Good timing: Just got off the phone with the plant. We've decided to add some more padding in the cartons so we're shooting for Tuesday.

                      If anyone's seeing shipping notices from FedEx's system, keep those tracking numbers for reference. We'll update all accounts with the same numbers as soon as the cartons are on the dock - when you see our notices your product is physically on the way.

                      All shipping labels are finished. As soon as we button up all the cartons we'll let all these subs go.

                      Thanks, everyone.

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                      • Originally posted by Chane M&C View Post

                        Good timing: Just got off the phone with the plant. We've decided to add some more padding in the cartons so we're shooting for Tuesday.

                        If anyone's seeing shipping notices from FedEx's system, keep those tracking numbers for reference. We'll update all accounts with the same numbers as soon as the cartons are on the dock - when you see our notices your product is physically on the way.

                        All shipping labels are finished. As soon as we button up all the cartons we'll let all these subs go.

                        Thanks, everyone.
                        Did I miss the announcement that we could order?
                        New system: Outlaw RR2160 receiver; speakers & subs TBD!

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                        • Originally posted by cgramer View Post

                          Did I miss the announcement that we could order?
                          Available for order as of 7/23:
                          https://forum.chanemusiccinema.com/f...203#post115203

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                          • Originally posted by cgramer View Post
                            Did I miss the announcement that we could order?
                            So far we've announced only on Twitter and here. Will send a newsletter as we move to a next-day shipping status.

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                            • Originally posted by Chane M&C View Post

                              So far we've announced only on Twitter and here. Will send a newsletter as we move to a next-day shipping status.
                              Will there be product photography of all models and of the amps' inputs/controls, etc.? Also, port plugs aren't mentioned in the description. Is one included, or do you have some available for purchase?

                              Thanks! Excited!
                              New system: Outlaw RR2160 receiver; speakers & subs TBD!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cgramer View Post
                                Will there be product photography of all models and of the amps' inputs/controls, etc.? Also, port plugs aren't mentioned in the description. Is one included, or do you have some available for purchase?
                                I don't think we'll studio these subs - too little margin in them to pay for photography and demand is high already anyway. Please see this thread for links to the original setup manuals.

                                No port plugs for a product like this. You'll want to run them in reflex mode all the time.

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