Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Chane Subs testing

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New Chane Subs testing

    Craig,

    Any chance you will be sending either of the 2 new subs ( SBE-118 and VBE-118) to Josh Ricci for testing?

    Would be interested in seeing comparisons between these and other more expensive offerings from "the usual suspects".......

  • #2
    Josh and I have spoken on this - and we will be getting both the SBE-118 and the VBE-118 tested by Josh this spring, when the weather permits.

    Our plan is to not only have Josh test our two subwoofers, but to also post response curves as measured by Josh along with the CEA-2010 numbers in both the two meter levels, RMS, as Josh does, but also with the one meter peak values. This will allow customers to get a bevy of third party information on both our subwoofers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I love me some bevies!

      And as far as spring is concerned, if I hear the forecaster mention that S... word one more time, there's gonna be a hole in my tv set. We need to make some more green house gases people!

      Comment


      • #4
        Guys - On AVS, it was asked what the response curve was on our passive subwoofers. As stated in this thread, we will be getting subwoofers to Josh Ricci as soon as weather permits for the purposes of testing not only response curves, but also max CEA-2010 output levels.

        Of course, we are getting the usual snarky comments we have all come to expect from AVS. SO .... let's see if we can have a rational conversation. To both CEL4145 and Sputter1 - you are welcome to post here. If you wish to continue posting on a forum on which I cannot respond, that's cool, too. We are used to that - especially the claims on AVS about all the "deleted posts" one will find here. All we ask, gentlemen, is you keep your posts to facts, and keep the personal insults out of it.

        NOW ... to measurements and "science" ... let's look at the UXL-18 subwoofer driver as tested by Josh Ricci. Here is a link to the measurements:

        http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=75&mset=81

        Based on commonly accepted measuring methods (I refer to those on Home Theater Shack as well as those posted by most other companies, this subwoofer's +/- 3 dB measurement is appx. 31.5 to 100 Hz.

        According to how our subwoofers are considered by the "science" guys, this subwoofer is -3 dB at 39 Hz.

        SO ... let us start here - which is it? Is the UXL-18, in a 4 cubic foot enclosure - 3 dB at 39 Hz or 31.5 Hz?

        Sputter1 and CEL4145 - consider this a special invitation to polite discussion. :)

        Comment


        • #5
          If you draw the -3 dB line with the SPL 124.6 at 50 Hz, it looks a hair below 40 Hz at 121.8.

          I've seen too many of those lines by so many armchair experts on CHT subs with the above thinking, I've grown to just laugh at them. Plus the description of roll off, knee point, Fs, "drops like a rock" comments, it starts to sustain it's own creation on AVS.

          Then it boils down to if I and others measure in room a very impressive response down to the teens and below, it must be a mistake of innumerous reasons. The result has been every CHT Owner's thread has been owned by word removed intent to destroy any actual users of the product.

          Admin note: Post was edited by Admin to remove combative language
          Last edited by sbdman; 02-27-2014, 09:30 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Steve - You will want to look at the basic response curve Josh posted, not a max output curve.

            And yes, please take down the "t" word. I really want a polite conversation on this, no matter who the poster is. :)

            Comment


            • #7
              CEL4145 is asking for a raw response curve. Once again, we will be providing one once Josh Ricci measures it. As I have stated about 50 times in various threads about our new subwoofers, we will be showing actual 3rd party measurements as specs.

              I do not believe any other manufacturer does this.

              This also brings up another question: Why don't other subwoofer companies post the response curves of their drivers in the enclosures used with the internal eq not being applied? This would be the same "raw" response curve people want to see from us. Yet there is never a request for this information.

              Putting this another way - would someone please show all the sealed subwoofers on the market that do not use an eq in the amplifier to achieve a flat response curve in an anechoic setting?

              The reason for this question is pretty simple: ALL sealed subwoofers require some eq unless the natural roll off of the subwoofer matches with one's room gain. It is possible a lot of people do not know this, and think that, say, a Funk Audio, JTR, or Seaton Sound sealed subwoofer is not eq'ed in the amp stage. They all are - this is not a bad thing, it is merely a fact.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have seen some of the comments on the AVS forum for the Chane Subwoofers. Some of what they are asking for is a little premature since the new line of subs have not been tested. It would be great is you were able to answer some of the questions.
                Klipsch system: RF 7 mains, RS 35 Surrounds, RS 35 FW, RC 64 center, Chase SS 18.2,SS 18.1(2), (2) Berhinger I Nuke3000 DSP
                Pioneer Elite SC 35
                Acurus 200 x 5 amp
                Yamaha M 80 amp

                2 Channel System: Yaquin VK 2100 integrated amp/McIntosh XR 5

                Family Room: Sony STR DH 510, Klipsch VF 35, Epik Legend sub

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by derrickdj1 View Post
                  I have seen some of the comments on the AVS forum for the Chane Subwoofers. Some of what they are asking for is a little premature since the new line of subs have not been tested. It would be great is you were able to answer some of the questions.
                  Speaking just for myself, I've answered those questions in two lengthy replies - lengthy enough to be assumed to be hiding something by one of our detractors and completely dismissed by another once he got the very answer he sought.

                  Another reader offered a third answer very much like mine. Still no positive effect.

                  In other words, a rhetorical campaign is being waged for the sake of presumption and argument and answers are just not its intent. If they were - assuming the question was meaningful for the convention of these sorts of products, which it is not - those detractors have been invited to post here. They have our email address, presumably, and our 800 numbers.

                  I've been involved in very few low-level (and unnecessary) controversies at AVS over the years. I decline being involved in another. Among posters there are found the only tiny handful of uniquely hostile, technically unknowledgeable, and argumentative audio guys on the net I'm aware of. Once they're answered on their premise I for one won't answer them again.

                  Chane is providing and will provide high levels of data, and as Craig notes, it's data other makers neither supply as a convention or are expected to supply. My opinion is that Chane will continue to be the leader in, as one of the AVS commentariat complained, transparency. Those detractors have been invited to post here. They have our email address, presumably, and our 800 numbers.

                  No maker should practice defending itself against presumptions it's shady or technically incompetent, or by terms and under conditions that just make no sense. I will not contribute to Chane being held to a unique - technically and rhetorically unique - standard even though I expect Chane is and shall be a leader in technical specification.

                  As for that answer, here it is a final time: The FR of the passive Chane subs is anything you set it to be within the limits of their respective maximum loudness as specified on this website from its launch. It all depends on the equalization and the equalization is an unknown external variable, by design and by specification.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good morning gentlemen - As Jon has stated, all of the members on AVS who are asking questions there (knowing I am banned there) have been invited here. Perhaps someone could point out to the members there that I first posted, two months before production started, that we would be posting a series of graphs as measured by Josh Ricci, and using those graphs for our actual specs. Please also ask just exactly how much more transparent can one get than this?

                    We will see if any of them ever accept the invitation.

                    We are going to explore a few subwoofers today that have "posted specs" and then what Josh Ricci measured on his site.

                    Here are some definitions for this exercise:

                    1. Subwoofer's EQ Response Curve (SERC): The measured total window for a subwoofer after eq is applied.

                    2. Subwoofer's Raw Response Curve (SRRC): The measured total window for a subwoofer with no eq applied.

                    3. Total EQ Required for a 6 dB window (TEQ). Taking the example above: a subwoofer with a spec of TW: 16 dB will require a TEQ of 10 db ... or TEQ:10 dB. This eq can be a combination of lowering the output in some bands or raising the output in others.

                    The above three pieces of information will provide the end user with valuable data, regardless the subwoofer in question.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Funk Audio 18.0

                      The Funk Audio 18.0 is the perfect subwoofer for this exercise. Please allow this: I think it's one of the finest subwoofers one can purchase. Let's look at the numbers ... As specified by the manufacturer, the Funk Audio18.0 can be configured to have a response curve of +/- 3 dB (TW: 6 dB) from 10 to 500 Hz.

                      This is all based on user adjustments within the built in amplifier and its parametric EQ.

                      When Josh Ricci tested the unit as a passive unit, he got the following:

                      Response for the 18.0 from 20 to 100 Hz: SRRC: 17 dB and SERC: 6 dB. TEQ is 11 dB for the Funk Audio 18.0

                      UXL-18 passive sub

                      The UXL-18 measured as follows:

                      Response Curve from 20 to 100 Hz: SRRC: 13.7 dB and SERC: Not measured. However, we know the UXL-18 would require a TEQ of 7.7 dB to achieve an SERC of 6 dB from 20 to 100 Hz.

                      Velodyne DD-18

                      Response curve from 20 to 100 Hz: SRRC: Not measured. SERC: 4 dB. We do not know how much eq was required for this response curve, as it is a proprietary curve set by the manufacturer.

                      Three subwoofers and three different approaches to delivering deep bass.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        SBE-118

                        We are anticipating an SRRC (20 to 100 Hz) of 16 dB for the SBE-118 in the cabinet we are using. This will require a TEQ of 10 dB for the SERC of 6 dB.

                        Preliminary measurements with the units I had for testing match up with our anticipated response curve.

                        We also anticipate that the Dayton SA-1000 / Dual SBE-118 (or a single SBE-118 ) will be configurable to a 6 dB total window from 20 to 100 Hz by using the parametric EQ and low pass crossover.

                        In addition, we will be offering the Mini DSP with our MQ-600 as an option for those who want to custom design a response curve - much as what can be done with the Funk Audio set up.

                        A killer package will be Four SBE-118's, the MQ-600 (listed together as package 5 on our site) plus the Mini DSP - user adjustable to the desired response curve, and a $2800 total package.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quite reserved for posting data

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here is for the conversation on AV Science, as the "gentlemen" involved will not come here, and they know I am not permitted to post there. I posted this earlier, "gentlemen" ...

                            Preliminary measurements with the units I had for testing match up with our anticipated response curve.

                            Yes, I have measured the test units. I am waiting on a production unit for the SBE-118 - it should be here next week. As it is an actual production unit, I will be taking and posting both raw responses and also responses using the eq ability of the Dayton SA-1000 amp.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sbdman View Post
                              I've seen too many of those lines by so many armchair experts on CHT subs with the above thinking, I've grown to just laugh at them. Plus the description of roll off, knee point, Fs, "drops like a rock" comments, it starts to sustain it's own creation on AVS.

                              Then it boils down to if I and others measure in room a very impressive response down to the teens and below, it must be a mistake of innumerous reasons. The result has been every CHT Owner's thread has been owned by word removed intent to destroy any actual users of the product.
                              It seems uninterested in valid convention, sound theory, or practical result, it declines correction and clear answers, it is logically self-referential and self-victimizing, and eventually it erects strawmen. It runs on inertia.

                              It's fallacy but with a tone of valuable community service.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X