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  • Behringer Amp comparison...

    Behringer EP4000 amp in comparison to the Dayton SA1000 amp...

    In discussions with Craig and doing other research in the 1 year+ of owning the CS 18.T, I know that my set-up is contributing to running the Dayton amp at full potential. I would get things dialed in for one demanding LFE movie and all would be well until the next demanding movie came along and the Dayton amp would go into protection mode due to the input signal. I tried various combinations of Audyssey On/Off, Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) in Studio mode (+4dBu) and Home mode (-10dBV), AVR sub trim levels and gain levels on the Dayton amp. When I shaped the input signal to play it safe, it left me wanting more and when I tried to get the most out of the amp, the protection circuit kicked in. After reading many threads on the various other amps available, I decided to try another amp with the 18.T and was able to locate and purchase a Behringer EP4000.

    Here is my current set-up:

    Dedicated, sealed 3000 cubic foot theater room.
    Onkyo 805 AVR.
    BFD set to Home mode.
    Audyssey ON.
    OmniMic measurement software.
    I watch movies at reference level or a master volume of 0.0dB on the 805.

    The first thing I did was run a single sub off each amp. This allowed me to set-up and EQ each individual sub with the BFD and re-run Audyssey. I started to run all of the demanding scenes that gave me problems and the Dayton amp sailed through with no problems...on the surface, it appears that the Dayton amp liked driving the single sub with my current equipment. I was able to set-up both amps to drive the subs aggressively and had a noticeable improvement in reproducing bass heavy movies.

    Next up, I set-up one sub on each channel of the EP4000, ran Audyssey again and didn't notice much difference from the previous set-up. After checking the specs on the Behringer amp, I sent a PM to Craig to inquirer about running the amp in bridged mode. I also noticed another thread here where Gorilla83 posted that he was running his 18.T this way and shot him a PM as well...each replied back that is was OK.

    I decided to go very slowly with this new set-up and after playing around with the input signal from the Onkyo 805, I decided to try and set the BFD to Studio mode, the sub trim level to 0.0dB in the AVR and set the gain on the EP4000 to produce 78dB at my listening position with the test tone from the AVR. I ran Audyssey and for the first time, it set my sub trim level to +1.0dB...in the past it would always be -15.0dB to -10.0dB. This was the first time that Audyssey correctly added another foot of distance to the distance setting of the sub to compensate for the BFD.

    I was actually a bit apprehensive to go all out with these settings...so I started slowly with low bass level scenes from Tron:Legacy and could not believe how good these scenes sounded. The BFD input level was showing all green bars and I was in no danger of clipping the input signal to the EP4000. Now I am ready for the big scenes and go to the scene where Sam enters the grid and I was floored...I have listened to these scenes at least 50 times and I could not get over the improvement. There is a definite increase in SPL but it is the "weight" of the sound now. I have no doubt that my current equipment likes the EP4000 amp and plays better with it vs. the Dayton amp.

    This is by no means a knock on the Dayton amp...my equipment, room and listening habits prefer the sound of the EP4000. Kudos to Craig for going with a separate amp to begin with and to continue to investigate other options. In the coming weeks I am going to try different crossover settings, Audyssey On/Off and placement of the 18.T in my room as well as a flat FR vs. a house curve...I suspect that I will be driving my Wife and neighbor crazy during the new year.

    Happy New Year to all here at CHT! :)

  • #2
    BA - Thanks for the write up. I may take a stab at this same idea with the Behringer EP-4000 we have here next weekend.

    This would be with a pair of VS-18.1's and Audyssey CT-32.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great write up! I knew you would like the performance of the ep. :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by craigsub
        BA - Thanks for the write up. I may take a stab at this same idea with the Behringer EP-4000 we have here next weekend.

        This would be with a pair of VS-18.1's and Audyssey CT-32.
        You're welcome Craig...

        I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the EP-4000...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gorilla83
          Great write up! I knew you would like the performance of the ep. :)
          Thanks man! :salute:

          Comment


          • #6
            Happy New Year, BA. Sounds like you're having some fun.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by auge.dog
              Happy New Year, BA.
              Same to you auge.dog...:)

              I will be contacting you again for another demo day and see if you agree with my findings.:fingerscrossed:

              I might have to wait until my one neighbor leaves for a month to visit family...

              Comment


              • #8
                So did I mis-read this in that you run Audyssey initially to get your settings, adjust the levels and distance then run it again? I have an 805 also and have always ran Audyssey first then fixed the crossovers/distance/levels manually and saved it. I don't mean to derail your thread I'm just curious so if this is too OT, MODS please just start a new thread :D

                Scott

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi skeeter99,

                  I always used REW or now I use the OmniMic to help with placement of the subs and I use a filter or two on the BFD to help tame the big peaks and then I run Audyssey...I try to find the best/smoothest FR before I finish it off with Audyssey.

                  I was running Audyssey after each change of amp even though the FR didn't really change much after I found the best placement for the 18.T. I was getting different sub trim levels between the amps though...the EP4000 seems to work better with my gear.

                  Right this minute, I have Audyssey turned OFF, a rather healthy house curve set in the BFD and I almost knocked my projector off the wall with Tron:Legacy...:biglaugh:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh ok I've got it now. You're not just relying on Audyssey for eq. Makes sense I didnt think running it twice right after itself would work. Thanks for the info! I can't wait to get out of a townhouse and back into a house again. Shared walls suck!

                    Scott

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by craigsub
                      BA - Thanks for the write up. I may take a stab at this same idea with the Behringer EP-4000 we have here next weekend.

                      This would be with a pair of VS-18.1's and Audyssey CT-32.
                      Craig, what will you use for a hi-pass filter?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BA:

                        I will be contacting you again for another demo day and see if you agree with my findings.
                        :woo:

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike P.
                          Craig, what will you use for a hi-pass filter?
                          Mike - I won't use a highpass filter. I want to see what happens with XT-32 without one. We tend to push our stuff to the extreme so our customers don't have to worry about doing the same.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by craigsub
                            Mike - I won't use a highpass filter. I want to see what happens with XT-32 without one. We tend to push our stuff to the extreme so our customers don't have to worry about doing the same.
                            Craig - not sure if there isn't merit to this statement, but I've read that use of a HP filter will prevent the amp from wasting power in lower frequency bands and keep the power in the area where the sub is tuned. Any experience with that? I have no doubts the VS will take all the power without issue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gorilla83
                              Craig - not sure if there isn't merit to this statement, but I've read that use of a HP filter will prevent the amp from wasting power in lower frequency bands and keep the power in the area where the sub is tuned. Any experience with that? I have no doubts the VS will take all the power without issue.
                              The use of a high pass filter is always a good idea with a vented sub. I would recommend using a 15 Hz highpass of at least 12 dB/octave with our VS-18.1's.

                              Yes, this highpass will keep the amp from wasting power. I am interested in finding out how Audyssey XT-32 works in the infrasonic region without a highpass.

                              The EP2500 measured -1.3 dB at 10 Hz in Chaz's test on AVS. Other electronics will be down somewhat at 10 Hz as well.

                              I KNOW that the VS-18's will work great with a HP ... but I want to see what they will do without one.

                              Comment

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