Power Future Proofing

[LonnyE]

Hi,

Not sure where this post most belongs, but it leads into considerations for future proofing for sub(s). I normally go for great bang for the buck. Very curious as to how the CS18.2s will perform for people. I do not yet have a subwoofer(s).


QUESTIONS
Would 2 CS 18.2 be overkill for my room?

What are the power requirements for 1 CS18.2?

What are the power requirements for 2 CS18.2?


BACKGROUND
I will be switching over to a projector and screen soon. FWIW, have settled on a Stewart screen and probably the EPSON 9500 UB and will have this professionally installed.

Subs were going to be my next upgrade, but unfortunately I had bought a Mitsu 62725 which crapped out early this summer. Although the entire chassis was replaced and it is working again, it led me to reconsider what was the next major theatre upgrade.

I had recently started reading up on Seaton, Danley, Epik and ED subs. Recently stumbled onto Craigsub starting up TCA. Leading towards eliminating Epik and ED from consideration due to quality concerns. I missed out in learning about the DIY DTS10 kit by a couple of days.

I very much like the fact that TCA is located in my home state and uses US parts. Were I to settle on a pair of Seaton Submersives it would probably mean that I won't get subs for yet another year due to their cost...

The cost of the TCA 18.2 is really intriguing!

My theatre is roughly 20'x 25' -- with the stairs and rack area added in the total volume in the low 4000s of cubic feet.

I have 2 20amp lines at the rack position with my Sunfire amplifier using one and everything else on the other. The projector will be on a dedicated power line.

The room outlets are also on a 20 amp line. Once the Mitsu TV is moved upstairs nothing will be routinely using the room outlets which I had thought I might use for 1 or 2 subwoofers.

I will be having an electrician in very soon to finish up a couple of outlets to provide options on the projector mounting position.

With TGA subs using external rack mounted Dayton amps maybe I should also be thinking of running another 20 amp line into the rack position...


Current hardware as follows:
NAD T175 (currently undergoing some upgrades)
Klipsch THX ULTRA2 Front/Center/Rears (so basically have a 5.0 system)
Sunfire TGA7200 amplifier
Sony S350 blu ray player
Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player
Middle Atlantic AXS rack


I have a moldering theatre construction thread with pics over at avsforum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=899985&highlight=eagles

[goonstopher]

There is a guy in PA selling 2 dts 10 kits assembled for 2500. He owns an audio company so I would be confident in their construction. You need to figure in a good amount of extra money for quality amps and EQ because of the naturally peaky response of the horn design.

You have to understand though, you are asking on a companies website and everyone here is going to be supportive or TCA. That being said the submersive is proven and the 18.2 is simply promising at this time. Still there price of the submersive is literally DOUBLE that of the 18.2. You could get 2 18.s's and an as-eq1 or other EQ and still buy 2 more next year if you wanted while spending about the same as the submersive. Really it is up to you, are you someone who wants to get a great return on their investment that might beat something that costs twice as much or do you want to just be 100% sure of the product you are buying? Both are valid, that being said, if you need to wait a year for the submersive then why not wait 3-6 months until the 18.2 has proven itself. By that time I am sure its value will be self evident and if I am wrong and it is not even half of what the submersive is then you lost nothing and your wait of a year is partially over. If I am right then you gained a big piece of mind in your purchase of the 18.2, saved a couple thousand dollars and your only loss is the time without the 18.2 that you waited (which for a bass head like me would be a horrible loss so maybe just take the leap!)

[LonnyE]

goonstopher,

Huh? Im not looking to be convinced on what to buy right now. I don't think it is going to take 6 months for it to become evident one way or the other on if the CS18.2 is the way for me to go or not. I think it is going to be evident within a month.

Let's put it another way I'm not going to wait 6 months for the electrician to come in. I will be scheduling him very soon to make ready for the projector.

DTS 10, DTS 20, Submersive are all powered subwoofers. As described in initial post to this thread, I can power them from my existing room outlets as in essence it would be dedicated toward their use.

I would be very likely to want to rack mount a Dayton amp because well I have a nice expensive rack to locate rack mounted components.

So, cutting to the chase my questions on power requirements were specific to what is needed for 1 or 2 CS 18.2...

[goonstopher]

No the DTS 10 is passive. The powered version is like $4500.
Here you go if you want them already put together - note they are not finished so its up to you if you want them painted/stained/covered:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=14029

Not suggesting them but figured you should know your options, its a good option.

As far as your needs I think only you can answer that is what I was saying.

I have 1600cu ft and I feel like I "need" 2 haha

Thats what I mean... Not giving you a hard time, that is really my opinion. In a room like yours with your budget I would have 4 of them but I have bass addiction issues.

[LonnyE]

No the DTS 10 is passive. The powered version is like $4500. Here you go if you want them already put together - note they are not finished so its up to you if you want them painted/stained/covered:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=14029

Hmm, had thought only the DIY DTS10 was passive. Anyhoo, first things first I am waiting at least until the first wave of CS18.2 reports come in and the projector screen is mounted as it is possible that that may cut down on my options both to what I can buy and placement. I'm hopeful that I won't need to mount the screen so low for viewing comfort that it prevents me from placing at least one sub on my sand-filled stage.

My stage is 12' wide. There are 2' wide stage to ceiling tile bass absorbers at each end of the stage. Going for a 100" screen which will take up nearly all of the 8' bay (widthwise).

I have 1600cu ft and I feel like I "need" 2 haha

Thats what I mean... Not giving you a hard time, that is really my opinion. In a room like yours with your budget I would have 4 of them but I have bass addiction issues.

Ha! Have you seen Stix's latest posts? You may hurt yourself with 4 of these things. :dizzy: It sounds like he has one CS18.2 in a room roughly the size of mine.

[Ray3]

Lonnie,

Just a couple of things.

First, that single 20 Amp circuit should cover your needs. If your comfort level says otherwise, a second circuit certainly won't hurt anything. As an aside, when I built out my home theater, I also had a whole house surge suppressor installed, so if the electrician shows up, it's not an expensive add-on. Lotsa gear = protection is a good thing. :rock:

Also, keep in mind that the CS-18.2 can also be laid on it's side. Upright isn't mandatory. You might also consider a pair of CS-18.1s. More placement flexibility and two of them would smooth the room response.

[tesseract]

Lonnie,

Just a couple of things.

First, that single 20 Amp circuit should cover your needs. If your comfort level says otherwise, a second circuit certainly won't hurt anything. As an aside, when I built out my home theater, I also had a whole house surge suppressor installed, so if the electrician shows up, it's not an expensive add-on. Lotsa gear = protection is a good thing. :rock:

I live in a rental house. My landlord is uber cool, I will live here until I buy my own house (been here over 2 years). Every time I ask for a home improvement, he agrees and puts it in place. 1950's house and wiring, I need an upgrade, one 20 amp outlet would be keen. With that said...

Also, keep in mind that the CS-18.2 can also be laid on it's side. Upright isn't mandatory. You might also consider a pair of CS-18.1s. More placement flexibility and two of them would smooth the room response.

This is where I am oscillating, the 18.2 or dual 18.1's? The 18.2 will have less self noise because of the opposed drivers. Dual 18.1's will have slightly less output (if not co-located, which would be absurd... just buy the 18.2), but will smooth the room more.

I am thinking, because I am a 2 channel guy, just go with the room smoothing. My question is, which will will be more beneficial, less cabinet vibration, or room smoothing? Or four SA1000 powered distributed 10.2's?!?!?!

I still have an MFW-15 to throw in the mix, although selling it would help get the CraigSubs quicker. Choices are good, and I can't go wrong with either option, but I don't want to do this again anytime soon.

To summarize, my options are:

1. One 18.2 (sell MFW-15).
2. Two 18.1's (sell MFW-15).
3. Two 18.1's and an MFW-15 (I have spare v1 amp and driver).
4. Wait for four distributed 10.2's (sell MFW-15).

Room is 12'W x 16'L x 8'H and open to the rest of my small 2 bedroom house. The MFW-15 pressurizes it no problem at my listening position.

What do you guys think?

Edit: this went sooo off topic, but line power is a consideration for all of us bassheads.

[Mike_TX]

Too complicated.
You are renting?
Just buy an 18.2, keep life simple and do Audyssey or other correction.
When you get your own house buy another 18.2.
Done.

:yes:

Mike

[tesseract]

Too complicated.
You are renting?
Just buy an 18.2, keep life simple and do Audyssey or other correction.
When you get your own house buy another 18.2.
Done.

:yes:

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I just checked out your AVS gear thread last night... HOLY COW DUDE! Beauty Rives cabinets and all! "thumbsup:

No Audyssey, I have a passive pre integrated minimalist 2.1 channel system (is there such a thing as a minimalist 2.1?). So I am thinking I can address any room issue at the root cause by using distributed subs and room treatments, already started with the treatments.

I HAVE considered a single 18.2 for now, and one later. Bet I would have no regrets. :mr-t:

[Mike_TX]

Thanks, Mike. I just checked out your AVS gear thread last night... HOLY COW DUDE! Beauty Rives cabinets and all! "thumbsup:

No Audyssey, I have a passive pre integrated minimalist 2.1 channel system (is there such a thing as a minimalist 2.1?). So I am thinking I can address any room issue at the root cause by using distributed subs and room treatments, already started with the treatments.

I HAVE considered a single 18.2 for now, and one later. Bet I would have no regrets. :mr-t:

T -

Thanks. WarrenP (now a VP at AVS) came up and took some video for the HT Revealed AVS series for my HT room.
I just got done watching "The book of Eli" in 128" of 2.35:1. Great stuff.

I think whatever you do getting those subs will be great.
However, even a "non-smoothed" CS-18.2 should really sound good and allow you to get just one sub and simplify.

I have a dual 12" sub in a semi-sealed room, but even before that I had a really open 3 floor townhouse design and it was still reasonable (but w/o visceral impact in that much cubic feet).

We'll see what other people say...

Mike

[LonnyE]

Lonnie,
First, that single 20 Amp circuit should cover your needs. If your comfort level says otherwise, a second circuit certainly won't hurt anything. As an aside, when I built out my home theater, I also had a whole house surge suppressor installed, so if the electrician shows up, it's not an expensive add-on. Lotsa gear = protection is a good thing. :rock:

Ray3, thanks for the aside. Did some google searches on whole house surge protection. That is really cost effective considering how much good quality single outlet/strip surge protectors cost...

I recognize that a dedicated 20 amp line will be enough for 2 CS18.2.

What I am not sure about is if I want to rack mount the Dayton amp. There are 2 dedicated 20 amp lines for my rack. One of those 2 lines needs to stay dedicated to my Sunfire amp. The other then would be for everything else.

Cutting to the chase then what do you think about the Dayton amp(s) powering 2 CS18.2, my Pre-pro, my Comcast converter box, and a BluRay player being used at same time?

It will be a pain for my electrician to get another dedicated line into the rack position. I did some sound proofing work done to isolate my mech room so he will need to punch through a good amount of 4" accoustical cotton.

Also, keep in mind that the CS-18.2 can also be laid on it's side. Upright isn't mandatory. You might also consider a pair of CS-18.1s. More placement flexibility and two of them would smooth the room response.

Ok good. I shouldn't have any problem getting at least one CS18.2 onto my stage then. I haven't seen any snapshots where you can tell if the CS18.2 has feet. Will it be possible to special order a horizontal configuration or is my question n/a?

I'm pretty much convinced that no matter what I choose it will be a pair. I dont think 4 subs would be possible in my room just due to layout -- 3 maybe possible. I have a challenging room with all 4 corners impacted in one way or the other. One corner has a closet (sump pump), another is the stair landing, another has double french doors to my backyard, the last corner is a doorway to a spare bedroom/bathroom and there is an off-center boxed-in lally column. Anyway, that is a discussion for another day...

[Ajax]

I haven't seen any snapshots where you can tell if the CS18.2 has feet. Will it be possible to special order a horizontal configuration or is my question n/a?

Question is n/a. No feet on the 18.2. Just lay it on it's side. When you do, what are now the two sides (which, in the vertical position were the top and bottom of the sub) and the top (which used to be a side) are clean and smooth. The front and back surfaces will have the drivers.

(I think I confused myself :shiftyeyes:)

[Ray3]

Cutting to the chase then what do you think about the Dayton amp(s) powering 2 CS18.2, my Pre-pro, my Comcast converter box, and a BluRay player being used at same time?

It will be a pain for my electrician to get another dedicated line into the rack position. I did some sound proofing work done to isolate my mech room so he will need to punch through a good amount of 4" accoustical cotton.

You should be fine with what you have. Worst case, you decide later that you just want the comfort level of having another 20 amp line and call the electrician.

[LonnyE]

Just saw the 18.2 response curve on AVS. Looking for TCA sub specific recommendations...

No longer a power question here :) It is a "Need Help on What to Buy" thread -- maybe I should have started another thread...

1) One or two CS18.2s?

2) Will I have problems with projector vibration? Should I be telling my installer that he needs to account for this?


As far as placement goes, should be able to get one or even two up in the front of the room.

The next best place I think will be along the back half of the left side of the room.

I don't think that anywhere along the right side of the room will work.

I could go back room center, but that forces me to give up the walkway to the double french doors (could still get to french doors by traversing over the riser).

I recognize that I would need a subdude if not located on the stage.

I am a complete sub noob. Am going to need alot of advice...



older pics @

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=eagles

If necessary, I can get more pics.

BACKGROUND
1. Budget: Looking at projector and screen but can could stretch for 1 or 2 TCA CS18.2s now. A pair of submersives or DTS 10/20 would need to wait till next year.

2. Size requirements/limits: No wife so no waf. If everyone can walk to where they need to get to -- ok by me.

3. Room Description: 25' x 20' -- if including stairs and small rack area would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 cubic ft plus. Room can be closed off.

I have a challenging room with all 4 corners impacted in one way or the other. One corner has a closet (sump pump), another is the stair landing, another has double french doors to my backyard, the last corner is a doorway to a spare bedroom/bathroom and there is an off-center boxed-in lally column.

4. Primary uses: mostly home theatre

5. Listening habits. HT -10 to -5 DB

Personally I like it at -5DB or even a tad more. My family tended to like it @ -10DB.

Music would be rock and blues

6. Appearance requirements: not an overriding concern -- black is desirable because will be switching to projector

7. Timeframe: Now to a year


Current hardware as follows:
NAD T175 (currently undergoing some upgrades)
Klipsch THX ULTRA2 Front/Center/Rears (so basically have a 5.0 system)
Sunfire TGA7200 amplifier
Sony S350 blu ray player
Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player
Middle Atlantic AXS rack

[craigsub]

LonnyE - Please PM me a number where I can call you. There are some questions I need to ask you before giving too much in the way of an answer. You have a very nice system now, and the right subwoofers will make for a great system !