What happened to dream that was the <$200 sub

[konman43]

I originally joined this forum due to the hype surrounding the Scamp subwoofer, and once checked daily on it's progress until it's sorrowful demise. Even now I still pop in now and again to see if there are any offerings close to what it could have been. Alas nothing <$300 seems to be in the works. :lurk: I've been in the market for a sub for a long time now. I wanted something at the price point of what the Scamp should have released for that would perform at a similar level. It being small was also a big plus as it'd be used /w an HTPC/Gaming computer in an 11.5' x 12' x 8' room.

I'm by no means an audiophile, but do like it when something pleases me aurally. I own the KAS303 sub (based off of the HSU STF2), and for now it's ok. I feel something's missing though. It's not as punchy as I'd like and if pushed a bit too hard it sounds (pardon my lack of vocabulary) flabby.

I've looked into the Sunfire JRs, Velodyne Minivee's, Polk Audio's offerings, and a few more I can't really recall. They are all nice, and perform very well, but all super expensive. The scamp seemed like it'd be a perfect fit for me, something in the $150-$200 range whose perfect size and performance would surprise even the most hardcore audio fans. There is a huge hole in this price range for a small accurate sub. It doesn't have to go down to the lowest of the lows, but it'd be nice to hit decently at 30hz or at least punch me in the chest. I guess some performance has to be sacrificed to get it at that price point and be reliable.

I know that there are still projects in the works, and that the only one seemingly close is the 10.1 sub, but that's at a ~$350 price I believe... Any suggestions? Am I looking in the wrong places? Am I a total dreamer? :begging: Is there no way to produce a product /w the size, performance, and promised cost of the orginal Scamp?

[m-fine]

It could have been done, but the corners that would have to be cut would make it risky. See MFW-15 fiasco for what happens when you push component suppliers too hard on price. I am guessing Craig got spooked and decided to go with US suppliers he could trust.

[engtaz]

I don't think price or pushing had to do anything with MFW-15. I work in the electronic field and everyone is subject to faulty or fraudulent components. Cost is not a definer on being ripped off.

[craigsub]

Good morning all - I have not abandoned the idea of an entry level sub. Once I took over design of our own subwoofer line, I had to settle on what COULD be done now ... and 5 months later we are starting production on 3 new subwoofers with custom drivers, custom amps and our own enclosures.

It was July 11 - exactly 5 months ago, and we are starting production this month with 20 subwoofers, and 75 in January.

The mix is 8 CS-10.2, 10 CS-18.1 and 2 CS-18.2.

Next month we can produce 25 more CS-10.2, 40 CS-18.1 and 10 CS-18.2

Back to the budget sub ... Once we get these three rolling, I am going to hit this concept hard.

I would prefer to get the drivers and amps here ... but please allow me to launch our first three, then we will move to the next project. :yes:

[Stereodude]

I don't think price or pushing had to do anything with MFW-15. I work in the electronic field and everyone is subject to faulty or fraudulent components. Cost is not a definer on being ripped off.

Someone's been drinking the Kool-Aide. If the MFW-15's problems had to do with counterfeit components in the amps, why was the fix a complete amp redesign rather than ensuring legit components?

The problem was that the design was marginal and didn't allow for component variation (tolerances). Matt's point is that if you try to squeeze the price too hard to you end up using marginal components with marginal design for the objectives.

[engtaz]

No Kool-Aide, Just dealing with bad parts and counterfit parts as a day to day problem in the industry. Those are where my thought come from. I don't consider my issues just mine but it is a industry wide problem. I stated "I don't think price or pushing had to do anything with MFW-15" and I was not attacking anyone. Quality Control is one thing that is in the control of the manufacturer. IE: all parts in place.

[Stereodude]

I don't agree. You won't get counterfeit parts if you buy from reputable sources (ie: the company or their main distributors). However, I still contend that counterfeit parts was not the issue with the MFW-15's amp. It was a design that wasn't tolerant of component variation. Typically at the lowest cost shops in China they do component substitution. They will quote your BOM, but build you something that doesn't use any of the actual components on your BOM. They will swap out every part for the cheapest "equivalent" part. Of course "equivalent" isn't identical. The design of the amp in the MFW-15 didn't accommodate this sort of practice. That's not an issue of counterfeit components, but one of trying to squeeze cost out of the amp. That's what happens when you go to the lowest cost supplier.

Cost pressures and the failures of the amps are directly connected.

[dvenardos]

Back to the issue at hand, it seems that coming up with a quality amp for a $200 sub would be the greatest challenge.

[tomtuttle]

Agreed. A popular "budget" subwoofer amp is the 300W BASH sold by Parts Express and others for about $150. Obviously, that's not going to work.

My opinion is that you might be able to build something credible yourself (a well-regarded, proven DIY plan is Roman Bednarik's Cerberus), but frankly, I'd just wait for Craig to knock out a 6.5" or 8" sub after the current offerings are established.

[graphicguy]

I don't agree. You won't get counterfeit parts if you buy from reputable sources (ie: the company or their main distributors). However, I still contend that counterfeit parts was not the issue with the MFW-15's amp. It was a design that wasn't tolerant of component variation. Typically at the lowest cost shops in China they do component substitution. They will quote your BOM, but build you something that doesn't use any of the actual components on your BOM. They will swap out every part for the cheapest "equivalent" part. Of course "equivalent" isn't identical. The design of the amp in the MFW-15 didn't accommodate this sort of practice. That's not an issue of counterfeit components, but one of trying to squeeze cost out of the amp. That's what happens when you go to the lowest cost supplier.

Cost pressures and the failures of the amps are directly connected.

stereodude....a good take on what can happen when costs are trimmed to the "nth" degree on components sourced out of China.

Having been knee deep in Chinese electrical suppliers, there are some big guys there who can churn out a bad batch of completed components. Then, there are the smaller companies (some not much more than back alley component stuffing outfits) who are more careful.

The difference is, the smaller ones will actually shut down when something goes wrong, only to reopen in a different place, with a different name, doing the same exact thing....leaving their original customers trying to find them for recourse (which is nearly impossible in China).

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of these "job shops" over there. There are good "small ones", and there are bad "big ones". The opposite is true, too.

Finding out which is which is the trick. Paying a higher price for this type of work doesn't guarantee that a better product will be produced....at least in China.

Having amps made in the U.S. is one way to alleviate a good portion of the problems, but it comes at a cost.