Announcement

**SnowmaNick** · 05-19-2009, 10:13 AM

Any of the ID sub's you listed will be an improvement over the SCI, that isn't even hard to say. AS for the subs, my guess would be the Sentinel will be the most powerful for movies, the Rythmik the most musical (as those were the design goals it appears for their mfg's). I have recently "inherited" a SVS SB12-Plus and it is a darn good little sub but I do not think it would hold up against the Sentinel for movies, it just doesn't have much low end grunt.

If it were me, with the usage that you mention, and needing a small footprint, I would get the Epik Sentinel and call it a day. The initial reports on AVS have all been positive, Chad seems to be a very nice and knowledgeable guy, and by all accounts it should work nicely for music as well.

**keenween** · 05-19-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by SnowmaNick

Any of the ID sub's you listed will be an improvement over the SCI, that isn't even hard to say. AS for the subs, my guess would be the Sentinel will be the most powerful for movies, the Rythmik the most musical (as those were the design goals it appears for their mfg's). I have recently "inherited" a SVS SB12-Plus and it is a darn good little sub but I do not think it would hold up against the Sentinel for movies, it just doesn't have much low end grunt.

If it were me, with the usage that you mention, and needing a small footprint, I would get the Epik Sentinel and call it a day. The initial reports on AVS have all been positive, Chad seems to be a very nice and knowledgeable guy, and by all accounts it should work nicely for music as well.

+1 from all my sub research

good luck!

**Jethro** · 05-19-2009, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by SnowmaNick

If it were me, with the usage that you mention, and needing a small footprint, I would get the Epik Sentinel and call it a day. The initial reports on AVS have all been positive, Chad seems to be a very nice and knowledgeable guy, and by all accounts it should work nicely for music as well.

I agree. The sentinel will be a beast in a small package. Seems to be what you seek. Unless you pick it up in Illinois, its going to cost over $850 however.

If you could go just a touch bigger and get away with it, I don't think this sub could be beat in the commercial market for $850 shipped in a sealed design. http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=640

**GreggyVT** · 05-19-2009, 01:13 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'm leaning Sentinel as well.

The eD is too big an heavy, but thanks.

I do have a general subwoofer question since I'm fairly new to HT.

The Sentinel is rated to 200hz +/- 3db, and the Vanquish is rated to 500hz +/- 3db.

On my receiver, the usual crossover for THX is 80hz. But on a "good" sub like the Sentinel or Vanquish, I'd assume one might want to take advantage of the 80-200 (or 500) hz range? So, how does the sub get the above 80hz signal? I haven't looked at my receiver, but I doubt that you can set the crossover higher than 120hz (or am I wrong)? Does it really matter if the subs I'm looking at are capable above 120hz? For example, the Rythmik F12s roll off after about 100hz, and some of the other subs roll off at 120. Is there any point to going with a sub that rolls off at 200 or 500hz?

**Jason** · 05-19-2009, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by GreggyVT

Thanks for the responses. I'm leaning Sentinel as well.

The eD is too big an heavy, but thanks.

I do have a general subwoofer question since I'm fairly new to HT.

The Sentinel is rated to 200hz +/- 3db, and the Vanquish is rated to 500hz +/- 3db.

On my receiver, the usual crossover for THX is 80hz. But on a "good" sub like the Sentinel or Vanquish, I'd assume one might want to take advantage of the 80-200 (or 500) hz range? So, how does the sub get the above 80hz signal? I haven't looked at my receiver, but I doubt that you can set the crossover higher than 120hz (or am I wrong)? Does it really matter if the subs I'm looking at are capable above 120hz? For example, the Rythmik F12s roll off after about 100hz, and some of the other subs roll off at 120. Is there any point to going with a sub that rolls off at 200 or 500hz?

I wouldn't recommend a x-over any higher than 80 hz for a single subwoofer setup, unless it is inbetween the mains, and even then maybe only up to 100-120. Bass gets directional above 60-80 hz, and can make it where you can localize the sub.

If you want to run a higher x-over, I suggest stereo subs and have them located close to the L/R speakers. Otherwise, stick to corner loading and a 80 Hz or lower x-over.

**GreggyVT** · 05-19-2009, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by SnowmaNick

Any of the ID sub's you listed will be an improvement over the SCI, that isn't even hard to say.

I also posted the same question on the AVSforum, and one guy said he didn't think any of the other subs would be considered an "upgrade" over the SC I. Not sure what his rep is over there, but he has over 3,000 posts...

Anyway, just to clarify, is the SCI inferior to the Sentinel (in ALL aspects)? I'm trying to determine wheter or not the Sentinel is worth an extra $150 over the SCI.

**Jason** · 05-19-2009, 04:34 PM

I cannot think of any meaningful spec/test result that the Epik wouldn't best the DefTech in.

**SnowmaNick** · 05-19-2009, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by GreggyVT

I also posted the same question on the AVSforum, and one guy said he didn't think any of the other subs would be considered an "upgrade" over the SC I. Not sure what his rep is over there, but he has over 3,000 posts...

Anyway, just to clarify, is the SCI inferior to the Sentinel (in ALL aspects)? I'm trying to determine wheter or not the Sentinel is worth an extra $150 over the SCI.

The only spec the Def Tech has in its favor is it is $150 cheaper, that's it, regardless of what MojoMike said at AVS. I have no reservations in stating that the DT SCI would get beat up and its lunch money taken by the Sentinel.

**GreggyVT** · 05-19-2009, 08:53 PM

I like you guys :-)

**Jason** · 05-19-2009, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by GreggyVT

I like you guys :-)

We are great at spending other people's money:stirthepot:

**GreggyVT** · 05-20-2009, 09:07 AM

I've pretty much narrowed it down to either the Epik Sentinel, or Rythmik F15 with 370WRMS PEQ amplifier F15 Specs. I know the F15 wasn't on the original list I placed, it IS bigger than what I want to go (20^3), but, I was wondering how the F15 would stack against the Sentinel in HT and Music. I'd assume it bests the Sentinel in Music, but for HT maybe it's only slightly less output due to it's 15" driver, but sealed design?

I really like how Rythmik has all of the controls on the back for tweaking - Epik hardly has anything. Anyway, I'm going with one of these two, the question is which one.

My room is about 2500 cubic feet, I'll be moving in a year, but the room size won't change THAT much. It's not a dedicated HT room, just an apartment with a combined living/dining room.

**GreggyVT** · 06-05-2009, 10:43 AM

I am really debating between the Epik Vanquish (sealed 12") and the Epik Sentinel (ported 12").

I've got an opportunity to buy a Rythmik F15 sealed Signature Edition (piano gloss) from a friend for $750. It is slightly bigger than what I want (18x24x18), but it is the nicer finish and is normally $999 + shipping. The Vanquish would be about $750, and the Sentinel would be about $870.

So now I'm torn between the three... I'd have to give up a little space for the Rythmik, but it would look super nice given the black glossy finish.

From what I can see, the only downfall to the Rythmik is the quick fall of frequency response past 80hz, while the two Epiks hold steady well past 200hz. How do you think the F15 would do against the Vanquish (sealed vs sealed, 1 12", 1 15", but the 12" has a 600w driver and the F15 has the 15" driver) and against the Sentinel (sealed 15" 370w driver, vs the ported 12" 600w driver).

One more thing to add is the Rythmik does have 1 band of PEQ, which the Epiks don't. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

**Jason** · 06-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by GreggyVT

I am really debating between the Epik Vanquish (sealed 12") and the Epik Sentinel (ported 12").

I've got an opportunity to buy a Rythmik F15 sealed Signature Edition (piano gloss) from a friend for $750. It is slightly bigger than what I want (18x24x18), but it is the nicer finish and is normally $999 + shipping. The Vanquish would be about $750, and the Sentinel would be about $870.

So now I'm torn between the three... I'd have to give up a little space for the Rythmik, but it would look super nice given the black glossy finish.

From what I can see, the only downfall to the Rythmik is the quick fall of frequency response past 80hz, while the two Epiks hold steady well past 200hz. How do you think the F15 would do against the Vanquish (sealed vs sealed, 1 12", 1 15", but the 12" has a 600w driver and the F15 has the 15" driver) and against the Sentinel (sealed 15" 370w driver, vs the ported 12" 600w driver).

One more thing to add is the Rythmik does have 1 band of PEQ, which the Epiks don't. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

Can't remember....have you directly contacted Brian at Rythmik to discuss this 80 hz upper limit? How high are you *really* needing to go? Depending on physical location, even an 80 hz x-over can be localized.

I'd go with the Rythmik if it was me.

**lngbruno** · 06-06-2009, 08:48 PM

Greggy,

Why don't you ask your friend to visit you with the Rythmik sub. Spend a few minutes to set it up and then test it with some favorite video and music disks. Ascend went with Rythmik as the OEM of their subs, so that shows a huge endorsement of their products. Check for owners comments on their site's forum LINK or over at AVS. OBTW, you really do want the top end of the XO frequency to drop off in a steep fashion and fast or as others have stated the sub will call attention to itself unless you have two of them...food for thought.

Both those suggestions should get you closer to a yea or no for the Rythmik. Epik puts out a nice product too so you can't go wrong either way.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own a GR/Rythmik sub and us it in a 2-ch system. This sub would be a perfect mate with Maggies or electrostatic speakers due to it's speed alone. It trounced my Vandersteen sub in speed, detail, dynamics and tonality. I purchased the Vandy to mate with a pair of maggies because it was, IMHO, the best match at the time.

Announcement

Best small footprint for $850 - HELP me choose

Best small footprint for $850 - HELP me choose

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment