need sub advice

[keenween]

I run my music and ht in a 2channel set-up (dvd player downmixes dolby and dts to stereo). LFE and bass get routed to L&R channels. I plan to filter the bass from my main speakers with high pass filters.

I've been contemplating my sub situation but I thought I'd seek opinions. I now have a UFW-12. My room is 2200 cu ft, but its not really sealed from the rest of the house, 9000 cu ft. I listen to music all day and all night. I watch a couple movies a week...I'm ready for impressive, deep, hard hitting bass.

Here are some options:

1. Keep the UFW, upgrade it and run it for HT. Buy two smaller subs (ss10?) and run stereo subs for music and HT. Maybe run the UFW nearfield. Probably my cheapest option.

2. Sell the UFW, buy two larger subs (Rythmik 15s, Epik Dragons???) and run them in stereo for music and HT. One less connection, more floorspace, someone would need to buy my UFW.

3. Sell the UFW and buy three subs, two smaller for stereo music and then a beast for HT (two SS10s and then a SS18) This is the least economical option, but still there if I want to be really patient as I'd probably have to wait another 4 years before I could afford a beast.

Anyway, please throw opinions my way!!! I'm willing to consider all bass options.

Also...its crazy how much money can be spent on what amounts to a 60+hz spectrum.

[dvenardos]

What are your current speakers and what are you using your UFW-12 for right now?

[keenween]

I now have ninja modded RS450s. I am looking at possibly going to one of Dannys kits, I'm thinking the O3.

I send both the L & R signals to the UFW-12 right now, so its a summed signal...both music and ht.

[SnowmaNick]

I'd vote for option two. Sell the UFW-12 and but two capable sealed subs such as those you listed to use for both HT and music.

[engtaz]

I would say option 1. The UFW-12 is a great sealed sub that is great for music and good for movies. You will will feel like you have a brand new sub after the upgrade.

[dvenardos]

Okay, more questions. What don't you like about the UFW-12 and what are you trying to get out of your new setup? Seems like the UFW-12 should be good for music already.


BTW - I have an Outlaw LFM-1EX that I am considering selling because it is too much sub for my room (I know people around here can't believe that). I barely push it and can't crank it for HT because of neighbors. Craig recently reviewed it. Just a consideration, I haven't really thought much about it and won't affect my recommendations for you. :huge:

[keenween]

Okay, more questions. What don't you like about the UFW-12 and what are you trying to get out of your new setup? Seems like the UFW-12 should be good for music already.

I like the UFW for music, works great. It doesn't hit the deepest of the deep, but for music no real complaints. For HT, it doesn't quite reach deep enough, and at higher spls the "limiter" is hit and then it makes a banging noise, which to me is disrupting. The hot rod should alleviate its shortcomings. But, I really want at least two subs to get rid of localization (even though the crossover is around 80hz)and to help with room response. I want something that will be very impressive for music and ht...but I won't need max spls as I am rarely at reference levels.

[dvenardos]

I like the UFW for music, works great. It doesn't hit the deepest of the deep, but for music no real complaints. For HT, it doesn't quite reach deep enough, and at higher spls the "limiter" is hit and then it makes a banging noise, which to me is disrupting. The hot rod should alleviate its shortcomings. But, I really want at least two subs to get rid of localization (even though the crossover is around 80hz)and to help with room response. I want something that will be very impressive for music and ht...but I won't need max spls as I am rarely at reference levels.

From your description, it doesn't seem to really make sense to keep the UFW-12, unless you wanted to see if the hot rod happens and then pick up another one. If it were me, I would look at picking up the GR research 12" servo sub. Get one, see how you like it and then add another one or more as funds allow. Another affordable option might be a quad pack of the SS-10s. You could get duals and then add another pair, one stacked on each of the first two. Of course, none of us have heard the SS-10 yet, but I think it is worth considering.

[Jason]

I like the UFW for music, works great. It doesn't hit the deepest of the deep, but for music no real complaints. For HT, it doesn't quite reach deep enough, and at higher spls the "limiter" is hit and then it makes a banging noise, which to me is disrupting. The hot rod should alleviate its shortcomings. But, I really want at least two subs to get rid of localization (even though the crossover is around 80hz)and to help with room response. I want something that will be very impressive for music and ht...but I won't need max spls as I am rarely at reference levels.

Depending on placement in regards to your mains, even an 80 cycle x-over can cause localization. Stereo subs for music is the cat's meow, I think. I can't wait to get another sub. Although my single ultra keeps up, I wish I had another one.

Dr. Geddes also recommends multiple subs, although he recommends 3 or more.

[keenween]

Well, I've done an intense amount of reading this week on all things bass.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell the UFW. It was nice to have a little update on the Hot Rod from AV123 this week. Since I'm moving in a couple weeks I packed up the UFW-12 tonight. I forgot how heavy the darn thing weighs! A whopping 137lbs!!! I tried several times to lift it into the box but I just couldn't get leverage on it. The cotton sock did not help matters as it really handicaps the grip. I ended up putting the foam surrounds on it and then putting the box down over it and rolling it upright. I'm sure that's what I had to do before, it had been so long I had to re-learn.

Anyway, researching different opinions I think a large single ported sub might be the best option. Duals are still tempting but it would be more $$$.

[keenween]

After more deliberation, I'm 99% set on a pair of Rythmik F15's. I was highly considering a pair of Epik Phoenix's, but its a good stretch on the budget. The F15s should provide the musical bass I seek, and with two of them I think I will have the output I desire for movies. I sort of wish the F15s were a bit more eye candy, but my wallets probably better off without the extra premium.

I'm glad to be approaching purchase mode. Reading internet forums can waste your mind as much as tv! People love to repeat their 2cents all over the place supporting the brands and products they own...which makes unique experience reporting hard to narrow!

[madpoet]

You could also go the DIY route, even if you just have someone like Eric (EARGASM) build the whole thing for you. Dual 12's with the new amp is really powerful. And much cheaper than some of the options you are considering.

[keenween]

You could also go the DIY route, even if you just have someone like Eric (EARGASM) build the whole thing for you. Dual 12's with the new amp is really powerful. And much cheaper than some of the options you are considering.

Yeah, I considered that. I have no tools or experience so I don't want to tackle the enclosures. I was actually in communication with Eric about commissioning N3 cabinets...I wish Audiocircle would get back up! A F15 should get me reasonably close in performance to a dual 12. I thought stereo 15s would more safely get me the movie bass I want than stereo 12s. If I wanted to do stereo subs with dual 12s and the new higher power amps that would be $1500 in just parts alone.

Some additional points...multiple subs are probably better for me since I don't plan on any DSP/EQ at the moment. I liked the Rythmiks over the Epiks in part because they provide a single band PEQ. I really liked the result of using RDES when I had it. I want to hold off for now on DSP/EQ because I'm forecasting that near future products are going to be a big step up from whats available today, especially in user friendliness/ease of use.

If Audiocircle gets back up I might ping Eric about the cost of cabinets to see what the cost savings might be. Perhaps he could do a pair of cabinets for 15s. Matching speakers and subs would be sweet.

[woofersus]

If you're considering N3's then you should consider following my master plan. (which I'm not even following until I have a job and some cash)

I'm going to have Eric build me N3's with 12" servo subs built in. I plan to do sealed N3's with sealed 12's in the lower half with the amps built right in and run the subs from 100hz on down. (Danny says they will do this no problem and still go down to 20hz) That will give me super-clean stereo subs for music as I will run them full range, but when I do HT I can cross them over at 40hz to my mfw-15 with my reciever and get the bone crunching low bass I like so much when things explode on screen. Building the subs and amps into the N3's will save you a lot over building a separate enclosure for the subs, and it will give you that holy grail 3-sub setup you mentioned. As an added bonus it will save you a lot of space over having multiple separate subs.

Danny tells me that if I do this I might never turn on the MFW-15 again, but color me skeptical...

[madpoet]

My room is 1900sf, not at all sealed from the rest of the house. The dual sandbox I've got coming should run painfully loud in that space ;) Another option which I was considering with Eric is building them as 2 boxes driven by a single amp so I could position them as L/R but not have the expense of a 2nd amp. But in the end I didn't really care so I stuck them both in the same box.