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  • Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    So far I've been inclined to go for the L-Series, but have seen your comments that the 700 series may be the more appropriate choice for HT use. So let me describe my particular situation and maybe we can zero in on the product i should be looking at.

    I do have a dedicated room primarily used for HT content, however I would also like this to be a space where I can go relax and enjoy some quality music listening.
    So far the 753 qualifies. It looks like a pro speaker and it has considerable output plus the distinctive horn treble, but it includes the same underlying design principles and goals as the L Series. The question is, naturally, what's it sound like?

    Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    The second part is something I have been missing for a long time because my current system is a bit lack luster in this department. It sounds great watching movies, but when I go into stereo it's just not as impressive. This was proven when I swapped my 20 year old Def Techs with my pair of A1.4s (purchased for surround duty) a few months ago before I fully finished the room. I was immediately astounded how amazing those little bookshelves sounded for music (and movies). Music listening was a night and day difference for me.
    The 753 still qualifies. The A1.4 has a ton of power on tap for such a small speaker - lots of folks use them as surround, effects, and other channels - and crossed above 80Hz probably keeps up fine with the 700 series in main channel locations.

    Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    Since then I've finished the room and the 2 pair of A1.4s are now in their surround locations awaiting their new cousins to join them in the front of the room. I would say my usage will be around 75% HT / 25% Music and I'm really looking forward to enjoying that 25% that I've been missing all these years.

    Here are some specs of the room:
    • 15' wide x 23' long x 8' high
    • 2 rows of seating
    Not an enormous room but there are two rows. 753 continues to come to mind.

    Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    • Row 1 - Two seats at 12'
    • Row 2 - Three seats on a 10" riser about two feet from the back wall
    12' also prefers the 753, meaning that the 753 focuses deeper in the room plus its more directional treble system will prefer that greater depth too. 12' works. Plan on experimenting with toe but it works.

    Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    [*]Front speakers are inside the room exposed (NOT behind an AT screen)[*]4 - A1.4s hidden inside columns for surround duty[*]SVS PB16 Ultra in the back of the room for LFE[*]4 Atmos speakers in the ceiling[*]Driven by a Marantz SR8012
    For exposed speakers the 700s are fairly utilitarian - by design - but if you're comfy with the A Series look the 700 Series look is no shock at all. Of the three the L Series are the prettier cabinetry.

    Originally posted by dougnliz View Post
    [*]While I do enjoy listening to movies at a good volume, I'm not typically listening at Reference Level[/LIST]

    Let me know your thoughts on which series you believe would be best for my situation. I've never listened to horn speakers so I don't know what I've been missing. Also since I won't have the matching horn design in the surrounds I wasn't sure how well the two would mix.
    The 700s are designed for great musicality, but will differ from our other series around the edges. For example, the A Series remain the treble extension kings. They reach above 30kHz and they have an airiness that lends itself to multichannel and cinema where we want to recreate a sense of space. They are slightly cooler than the L Series, however, which I attribute to the L Series tech from SB Acoustics.

    The L Series tend more to downward dynamic range, or inner detail. The tone colors are richer, the image more solid, and the general sense is that they serve long term music enjoyment best. They are a bona fide classic high end speaker.

    For the 700 Series the interesting part to me is how horn treble sounds. For the 753 and 752 we choose a medium depth or directivity horn that can be rotated in the 752 - the 752 can be used like the A2.4 as either vertical main channel supported by an active bass system or as matched horizontal center. The treble is more constrained within the horn's 60x40 degree directivity, but at 12' feet, as we wrote back in the original 700 Series description, they develop more than enough spread.

    Horn sound is therefore only partly described in terms of directivity. The rest relates, it's said, to their very low distortion. The theory is that whenever you start with a roughly 105-110dB native driver sensitivity and then pad it down to a 90-95dB speaker you'll then play fifteen dB lower than that, the proportional reduction in distortion and the enormous headroom gained by this setup translates into a sense of dynamic freedom and clarity nothing else can match.

    I'd agree, and in an absolute sense the good horn treble system is, at least for me, state of the art. Really stunning examples are just supernaturally good, and while the 700s are far more economical units than the thousands of dollars a state of the art horn treble system costs, the basic design elements remain.

    In designing them we found yet again that horns are actually superbly forgiving and almost can't be made to sound the ways virtually all direct radiators can in terms of high level compression, unnatural added coloration, and artificial tizz and ringing. While they don't have the 30kHz+ extension, they are deeply musical in other ways, and have no fatigue that we'd been able to induce in them.

    Coming back to the speaker under them, the 753 uses ScanSpeak versions of the famous Vifa P21 driver, which has lovely musicality with natural tone and detail, plus a matching high energy light paper midrange to go with them. But the trick is again the crossover, and in the 752 and 753 we've built a custom time-aligned system that allows 3D focus as good as anything we make. It's there that the speaker stops sounding like we might think at first glance. They are audiophile speakers with horns and not pro speakers resized for home.

    None of this guarantees any one user won't prefer another speaker, the Ls included. Whether the added 3dB+ dynamic headroom over the L7 matters is a question of average playback level, and whether the extra treble extension could involve your room acoustics that I'm not aware of. But in the general terms above I don't see anything to strongly recommend something else, if at all.

    Comment


    • Is the difference in coolness mainly related to the L's lower impedance and/or the drivers pushing further and even harder related to being sealed?

      What were some of the reasons why you opted for Scanspeak versus SB Acoustics for the 700's and L's?

      I recall there were some back ordered parts. Is the plan to wait until all parts arrive before shipment begins?

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      • Originally posted by kabin View Post
        Is the difference in coolness mainly related to the L's lower impedance and/or the drivers pushing further and even harder related to being sealed?
        All models are 8 nominal ohms (with the exception of the 753 and A5.5 being triple woofer systems at 6 nominal ohms, and the L6 being 4 ohms because it needed to be as close to the L7 as possible but with half the woofers. Since it's generally an 80Hz+ speaker, we don't see this being an issue, and with pretty much the whole speaker industry moving eventually to a four ohm standard, doubly so.)

        Any perceptible difference is unrelated to the impedance and probably is just the sound of the drivers themselves. The SB Acoustics, which we were first to use in North America ten years ago, are the closest to very collectable and valuable light-duty vintage prosound drivers from decades ago but in small consumer-class units. While the old classics used AlNiCo motors, they too had the natural tonality and inner finesse and layering of the SBAs. Exactly why this is I can't say.

        Originally posted by kabin View Post
        What were some of the reasons why you opted for Scanspeak versus SB Acoustics for the 700's and L's?
        Cost. The Ls use SBA because they're so good and the larger and initially more costly 700s use the SS because we can get them at a very good cost. Given that the 753 and 752 treble systems cost about three times the cost of the excellent 29mm L Series rindome tweeter in the Ls, we needed to be smart on the rest of the speaker.

        Originally posted by kabin View Post
        I recall there were some back ordered parts. Is the plan to wait until all parts arrive before shipment begins?
        No. We're going ahead on every model and will simply fill in as supply allows. Development is also continuing on other models too.

        Comment


        • Thank you Jon. I truly appreciate the detailed response. I believe you've convinced me to give the 700 series a try. To be honest the black will go better in my room anyway. With the creator's recommendation going that direction on so many points how can I go wrong? Honestly I believe either choice would be a win-win based on my experience with the A1.4s. I'm really looking forward to that BUY button appearing on the site.

          Good luck with launches!
          Doug

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          • Hello Jon,

            I like a few others have been stuck trying to decide on which speakers to get the L series or 700 series. Based on your previous response to dougnliz, I am now leaning towards the 753's. I was wondering which center would be best for the system, I did like the larger size of the L6, but wonder how the 700 series center would compare with it. My use is 65% HT and 35% Music.
            I look forward to hearing your input.

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            • Originally posted by sirjapedo View Post
              I like a few others have been stuck trying to decide on which speakers to get the L series or 700 series. Based on your previous response to dougnliz, I am now leaning towards the 753's. I was wondering which center would be best for the system, I did like the larger size of the L6, but wonder how the 700 series center would compare with it. My use is 65% HT and 35% Music.
              The matching center is the 752. It has an identical treble system, the same woofers, and the crossover/design type is as close as a symmetrical 2-way center can be to a asymmetrical vertical 3-way speaker. You'll get very similar dynamic behavior, closer sensitivity matching, and even complementing phase and time responses.

              It's an unusual but effective speaker, one that thoroughly surpassed early expectations. Very much in the 753's area.

              And it'll match visually too.

              Comment


              • I'm looking to equip my two-channel system for music (it'll probably be used 60-70% for TV and movies; I'm just more picky about how my system sounds for music), and after following both the L-series and 700-series threads, I think a pair of 753s would suit my listening preferences best. I want a high-impact speaker with a "live" sound to them. That's not to say I want speakers that sound like a PA system, but I don't listen to a whole lot of chamber music or solo violin or other types that require that next level of finesse. I listen mostly to rock, jazz/fusion, EDM, funk, and some folk/alt-country stuff. I'm hoping to be able to get away without a subwoofer if possible but still get that "chest punch" liveness I'm seeking, so I'm thinking a speaker with three 8" woofers each is the most likely candidate. It now just comes down to price... Any ETA, Jon? :) (I know, your favorite question!)
                New system: Receiver/integrated amp TBD; Chane Model 753 speakers!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cgramer View Post
                  I'm looking to equip my two-channel system for music (it'll probably be used 60-70% for TV and movies; I'm just more picky about how my system sounds for music), and after following both the L-series and 700-series threads, I think a pair of 753s would suit my listening preferences best. I want a high-impact speaker with a "live" sound to them. That's not to say I want speakers that sound like a PA system, but I don't listen to a whole lot of chamber music or solo violin or other types that require that next level of finesse. I listen mostly to rock, jazz/fusion, EDM, funk, and some folk/alt-country stuff.
                  I think you were on your way to confirming the 753 before the last sentence at which point you pretty much locked it down, CG. I still like to let loose with recordings that makes lots of textures and large visual images - loud without stress, strain, or electronic artifact - and of all the stuff we're coming out with and all the stuff we may have on the horizon, the 753 is the design for this.

                  The mid-treble system is high energy without, as you say, any PA sound in there, and the triple eights in parallel have the thermal handling, the dynamic output and even the vertical stack height to make a vivid bass and midbass. You already know the 753 is sealed and engages the room gain subtly more than it belts out 40Hz one-notes like a nightclub reflex system would, but the musicality of the sealed system is superior and you could even EQ in a little kick if you liked.

                  Originally posted by cgramer View Post
                  I'm hoping to be able to get away without a subwoofer if possible but still get that "chest punch" liveness I'm seeking, so I'm thinking a speaker with three 8" woofers each is the most likely candidate.
                  Exactly. This is more a music speaker than the prosound speaker it looks like, but its capacity is excellent. It's a nice trade-off between usable bass and good efficiency/sensitivity so it works well as a stand alone. We're looking at a more expensive subwoofer-assisted 753 V2 for late in the year but it gives away almost all its bass for another 2.5dB initial loudness. Definitely a sub-topper.

                  Originally posted by cgramer View Post
                  It now just comes down to price... Any ETA, Jon? :) (I know, your favorite question!)
                  Working hard on it, CG. ETA is July. We've seen some Covid-related driver shortages, but we have five pallets of parts arriving Jul 1st, in which are the final pieces. We have another thirty or so already on hand.

                  Price is unknown. I would like to see $1599/pr but then there's a lot of things I'd like to see...

                  Comment


                  • Is the release of the L series becoming a lower priority? Subs are soon to be released, looks like more news about the 700 series progressing... The L's were the first announced, but seem to be getting pushed back?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Spidacat View Post
                      Is the release of the L series becoming a lower priority? Subs are soon to be released, looks like more news about the 700 series progressing... The L's were the first announced, but seem to be getting pushed back?
                      No sir. All 700 and L are undergoing simultaneous final work. They all fit in and around one another as floor process flows and will naturally move around in the mix. But there's no slowing on any of this - unless we hit a material or component shortage, which is certainly possible - and the Ls are not demoted. The subs were sent through first just because they're simpler and we know they're probably all going to move out fast.

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                      • Jon be serious, they are all going to move out fas

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                        • Maybe it was a choice to keep the L6 acoustically similar (size wize) to the L7, but what can you tell us about the driver layout of the L6 - why not a more "traditional" 3 way design with one midrange directly under the tweeter? My system is in my living room, so neither my wife or I will ever be far off axis, but real or overblown, you read a lot about center channel speakers with multiple midranges having lobing issues. I'm sure there must be engineering designs that reduce/eliminate lobing issues, but what can you tell us about the design choices for the L6 since the center channel is so important for home theater?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Spidacat View Post
                            Maybe it was a choice to keep the L6 acoustically similar (size wize) to the L7, but what can you tell us about the driver layout of the L6 - why not a more "traditional" 3 way design with one midrange directly under the tweeter? My system is in my living room, so neither my wife or I will ever be far off axis, but real or overblown, you read a lot about center channel speakers with multiple midranges having lobing issues. I'm sure there must be engineering designs that reduce/eliminate lobing issues, but what can you tell us about the design choices for the L6 since the center channel is so important for home theater?
                            That's a good question put very well, Spidacat. You've included all the high points. Good choice of words.

                            Evaluating a high performance speaker naturally involves interpreting its bedrock physics - we may vary our beliefs but the device isn't susceptible to what we think about it. That sounds completely self-evident, but in places any field may have as much asserted belief as it has concrete evidence. One popular belief is that amplitude dispersion is everything in a speaker and that all driver arrays only follow physical geometry.

                            In a center speaker the subjective call behind the L6 was twofold: Match the L7 as closely as possible (in a relatively compact but still large speaker) and use what experience and theory finds is important to acoustical transparency. The first is easy and fits into the second.

                            For the L6 we put the L7's successful MTM system into a compacted array - a V-shaped triangle - to bring the three acoustical centers as close together as possible within the natural box shape for its twin 6.5" woofers on the ends. Where the vertical L7 held the three MTM drivers on centerline, the L6 center speaker, always with a horizontal, center channel driver array, staggered them across the vertical box axis to acoustically unify them as much as possible. Add a sub-2kHz crossover and the major, dimensional factor of good MTM integration is done.

                            The L7 was developed first. Its talent is excellent transparency and image from a large speaker, where that transparency and image come from the smallest driver system in the L series so far, the twin 4.5" mids and the 29mm ringdome tweeter between them. That transparency does not come from amplitude-only design thinking. The L7 is probably the amplitude-flattest speaker in the range - "probably" because every system and technique is different - but it's not amplitude linearity that gives it the open sound. I've tested this more than once.

                            I don't think image and sound stage come from dispersion either - I've heard too many speakers in development to agree. They come from recovering the stereophonic effect in the recording (which we may hear best with zero-dispersion, zero-reflection headphones or IEM's). Image and especially 3D focus within an imaged soundstage come from psychoacoustical re-visualization - sounds cannot spray from a wide-dispersion speaker and then redirect themselves tens of milliseconds later to create the phantom source. It's created by precise stereophonic cues correctly emerging directly from two speakers fed coordinated signals. This is easily testable with high grade single-driver speakers heard from a foot away and entirely outside of the reverberant field: they image holographically.

                            Our A2.4 has been a very popular 3.x channel speaker. It is known for good dimensional effects. It's also a speaker designed for good driver coordination, which is something that we've noticed for years always made a multiway speaker sound more like a one-way design. The A2.4 is also a horizontal MTM speaker, and we all know what the conventional thought is for flat MTM centers. Yet in mixed mode in a single three-channel system, the acoustical effect of the trio of identical speakers, one horizontal, is consistently liked.

                            The L6 therefore followed the L7 as closely as possible, with design type having been optimized in the L7 for superb height, spread, and depth cues in a big sound stage. Repeating the A2.4's internal basics and compacting the driver array even smaller than the A2.4 while lowering the crossover frequency is much of the game in the L6. The L6 is as identical to the L7 as we can make it, which we know also helps. The rest is stuff I won't bore you with except to say that I've never once not found that crossover integration and integration type were not far more important to subjective sound than simple amplitude linearity. I'd even say that overdoing the amplitude emphasis will lead to less transparency and natural "spread" in the room.

                            The ear is actually quite tolerant of amplitude disturbances. When intelligibility is important, it's not as tolerant of dis-integrated multiple acoustical sources.

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                            • Interested in L6 & Pair L7

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                              • Jon,

                                It's getting down to the wire but do you anticipate a holiday status update before the 4th of July?

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