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How many watts for A1rx-c?

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  • How many watts for A1rx-c?

    Hi guys! I'm planning on buying these speakers in the coming few weeks when I move into my new apartment. (All though I will admit I'm tempted by the Diamond 10.1 speakers...)

    How many watts do I need to drive these speakers well? I am looking at a Realistic 820 @ 40 WPC with two Fisher XP-55 speakers (not great from what I've read.)

    I'm also eyeing a Pioneer SX-750 @ 50 WPC for $30. $30 seems like a steal for this stereo reciever, but is it enough to power a pair of A1rx-c's?

    The third option is buying something newer around 100 WPC with more features.

  • #2
    It's all about how well an amplifier can deliver real peak current to the load. For example, 40w isn't a lot by market standards, but in a very good amplifier, it can be more than enough. The trick is to select an amplifier with good current headroom.

    Once you find an amplifier's 8 ohm rating, look for a 4 ohm rating too. If it's present, it should be double or nearly double the 8 ohm rating. There's more to it than this, but as a start this is a good indicator of a competent amplifier and design.

    If you use such an amplifier, the 45-90w category is fine, and will also let you upgrade into a larger speaker later.

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    • #3
      Your listening conditions is a big factor in how much power you need. Smaller spaces and lower listening levels require less power. 40WPC may be adequate to fill a small apartment space without disturbing the neighbors. But 40WPC may be inadequate to fill a large space with reference level SPL's.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the great responses! I'm hoping that because the SX-750 was almost a top of the line receiver at its time that it will have enough headroom. I'll also be using them in my medium size bedroom with tennants on the two floors above me, so I shouldn't push the speakers too hard. (although I'm sure it will be hard no to)

        Jon I love seeing how active you are on both the forum here and on Massdrop. It really gives the impression that you and this company really care about the speakers and your customers. It looks like the speakers will ship soon after the current drop ends?

        Excellent work!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zobbyblob View Post
          Jon I love seeing how active you are on both the forum here and on Massdrop. It really gives the impression that you and this company really care about the speakers and your customers.
          Thank you, that's good to hear. No vendor wants to wear out his welcome...

          Originally posted by Zobbyblob View Post
          It looks like the speakers will ship soon after the current drop ends?
          They shall, typically within a week, not including time spent traveling to the customer's door.

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          • #6
            Well I'm getting a new integrated amp. We'll see what I end up with... I'll keep this thread updated (if I remember.) I won't be able to test the speakers for about a month or so; so expect an update around then.

            Edit 1: Okay I admit it! I caved and canceled my order of the A1rx-c!

            And ordered two A2rx-c's...
            Last edited by Zobbyblob; 07-10-2015, 01:41 PM.

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            • #7
              I just ordered some A1rx-c and have pretty much the same question but for use with a run of the mill receiver. I have a Yamaha RX-477. I will probably order a A2rx-c also once I break these in and see how I like them. I had no plans to buy an amp and would prefer not to but will my receiver be sufficient for these speakers?

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              • #8
                @SoCalCyclist,

                You can't add a separate amp to your RX-744 (it doesn't have audio pre-out jacks), if that's what you were hoping for. If you wanted to run a separate amp, you would have to buy a pretty expensive mid to high level AVR to get audio pre-outs, then you would have to pay for an expensive separate amp to connect to those jacks.

                Unless you have some listening conditions that are out the norm, most people do not need a separate amp.

                First, you should try out your current AVR. If you are constantly maxing out the volume knob to get satisfactory SPL's, then maybe you need more power. Again, instead of going the separate amp route, look into an AVR that already has a very good power section and amp section. If your current AVR had audio pre-out jacks, then I would advise to go straight to a separate amp, again, only if you needed it anyway.

                For awhile I was running my A1rx-c's with an old Pioneer VSX-456, which had plenty of power for the speakers. Although it was only running in stereo mode.
                Last edited by gdstupak; 08-01-2015, 06:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gdstupak View Post
                  @SoCalCyclist,

                  You can't add a separate amp to your RX-744 (it doesn't have audio pre-out jacks), if that's what you were hoping for. If you wanted to run a separate amp, you would have to buy a pretty expensive mid to high level AVR to get audio pre-outs, then you would have to pay for an expensive separate amp to connect to those jacks.

                  Unless you have some listening conditions that are out the norm, most people do not need a separate amp.

                  First, you should try out your current AVR. If you are constantly maxing out the volume knob to get satisfactory SPL's, then maybe you need more power. Again, instead of going the separate amp route, look into an AVR that already has a very good power section and amp section. If your current AVR had audio pre-out jacks, then I would advise to go straight to a separate amp, again, only if you needed it anyway.

                  For awhile I was running my A1rx-c's with an old Pioneer VSX-456, which had plenty of power for the speakers. Although it was only running in stereo mode.
                  Thanks. I did say I prefer not to buy an amp. If I did I thought I could attach one by the port I am using for a subwoofer now?
                  i am going to try my current AVR but I was thinking of buying a new one anyway. What sort of receiver would have a very good power section? What would be considered very good?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HOW TO DETERMINE THE GOOD FROM THE BAD....

                    Reading reviews helps to determine if equipment has better or worse qualities. Many reviewers don't just come out and say exactly how this comment or that comment pertains to a certain characteristic, but you learn what means what.
                    The following quote from a cnet AVR review is in the sound quality section, not only is the reviewer describing typical sound quality but this passage would be referring to how well the power section handles complex situations...
                    "The NR1403 may "only" be a 50-watt-per-channel receiver, but it's one of the best-sounding models we've tested of late. We showed it no mercy and played the train crash scene from the "Super 8" Blu-ray at a healthy volume, and the NR1403 didn't hold anything back. Even compared with one of the best-sounding receivers, the 165-watt-per-channel Sony STR-DN1040 , the two receivers sounded about the same." If the power section wasn't able to handle this test, the reviewer would probably describe how the crash scene sounded good at first but then the AVR would quickly run out of steam causing the complex audio to turn anemic.

                    As far as looking at AVR test specs, I'll reiterate Jon Lane...
                    " Once you find an amplifier's 8 ohm rating, look for a 4 ohm rating too. If it's present, it should be double or nearly double the 8 ohm rating. There's more to it than this, but as a start this is a good indicator of a competent amplifier and design."


                    AVR PRE-OUTS TO ACCOMODATE A SEPARATE AMP....


                    The LFE output jack (that normally connects to a separate sub) is a pre-out jack for only that one channel.
                    For every channel that you would like to add an amp, that channel needs to have it's own pre-out jack. In other words, if you want to use a separate amp for all 3 front channels (Left, Center, Right), then the AVR would need to have a Left pre-out jack, a Center pre-out jack, and a Right pre-out jack.
                    Then the separate amp (or multiple amps) would need to accommodate however many channels you want to amplify. Each channel would need its own amp. In other words, if you want to amplify all 3 front channels, you would need 3 separate amps, or you would need a single unit that houses 3 amps (a multichannel amp).

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                    • #11
                      If the power section wasn't able to handle this test, the reviewer would probably describe how the crash scene sounded good at first but then the AVR would quickly run out of steam causing the complex audio to turn anemic.
                      Agreed. Given how quickly dynamics occur - and most audio content is dynamic - you'll hear this anemic quality virtually immediately. Good amplifiers sound robust, dimensional, smooth, and well, musical. Poor amplifiers sound electronic, thin, artificial, and probably the best one-word adjective, anemic.

                      It's been said that amplifiers are almost always in some form of overload - they're always "trying" to return to the steady, idle, no-signal quiescent state between signal impulses. Ideally, we want an amplifier that has as little reactive, resonant, over-driven, "recovery state" as we can find.

                      The real-world problem is that many affordable, highly commercial amplifiers may have little attention paid to this recovery state. They probably have excess circuit feedback to give them low harmonic distortion numbers, but they just cannot respond well to the high, dynamic current requirements that audio signal driving real loads subjects them to.

                      (This is one reason why a big cohort of high end audiophiles choose minimalist tube amplifiers: Very low native distortion without circuit feedback, complex circuitry, or excess electronic reactance. Their best feature isn't the relatively low power, but how the amplifier recovers during dynamic conditions. These tiny 1-10 watt devices may be driven well up to their rated limits and not lose their transparent, life-like sound. It's not the wattage power, it's how the amplifier behaves when subject to real, complex signal and a real load.)

                      What's our best option for an affordable amplifier to drive a good affordable speaker? Look for that 4 ohm rating. That'll at least tell you if the amplifier has the current headroom to behave better under dynamic conditions driving a real loudspeaker load than amplifying steady signal into a test resistor on a lab bench. You won't need a lot of power, but just like the CNET reviewers found, what kind of amplifier matters.

                      The common idea that all reasonably competent amplifiers sound alike may be well-intentioned but it's incorrect. When a common $300 multi-channel receiver can't drive channel A without severely modulating channel B down to 2/3 of it's rated power, something's missing. It's audible. There are simple 2-channel amplifiers on the market for $150 that operate and sound better than that.

                      Look for more comprehensive specifications and don't be afraid to avoid amplifiers over 100W if they exceed your budget.

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                      • #12
                        Thanks for the replies. It's useful and I learned some things but I'm kind of a nooby so still not quite sure what to make of everything that was said.
                        I guess I'll try the RX-477 with the speakers and see how it goes. There are lots of new receivers this year and I was looking at moving up to an Aventage Yamaha of some sort. I doubt I will go past 5.1 and am most likely staying at 3.1 but may get a 7.2 just to get more power and features. I don't want to spend more than about $700 on a receiver and would prefer not to have an amp if I could avoid it.
                        I'm sticking with Yamaha because of reliability which they seem to be well known for.
                        If someone could just tell me something Yamaha makes that would be good in around the $700 price range that would be awesome. :-)
                        I'm looking at these;

                        RX-V679

                        http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model

                        7.2
                        105 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
                        90 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
                        150 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
                        125 / 165 / 190 / 235 W

                        RX-A750


                        http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model

                        7.2
                        105 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
                        90 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
                        150 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
                        125 / 165 / 190 / 235 W
                        I could go up one more model if it helps or try another brand in that price range but so far I like Yamaha.
                        Last edited by SoCalCyclist; 08-02-2015, 02:41 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Judged just by the power figures, either example looks fine. You could go with a smaller amplifier too, but either of those units seem quite capable. It may even be that the amplifier sections are identical - the specs are...

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                          • #14
                            I'm running a Denon AVR-X1000 with the A1rx-c...80 watts/ch @ 8ohms. It is more than ample to drive these speakers. Just a real world experience. :cool:

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                            • #15
                              I am running an old 2-ch receiver 75 wpc with the A1b's. Plenty of power for my 2.0 listening.

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